Is there a kind of life that wouldn't be pessimistic and was worth living? Can you define that? Some of the stuff you listed can feel worth it at times, and make life seem enjoyable. Whether it adds up to a meaningful life worth living depends on the individual. Antinatalists seem to think people are fooling themselves.

I see it both ways, just depending on my mood.

Indeed life is. From the outside its survival, comfort seeking, and finding entertainment. From the first person its dealing with situations. Dealing with getting through the manueverings of a society and existence itself. Doesnt matter if its an office, driving on a slippery highway, a coal mine, overcoming boredom, finding meaning in something, reading, hunting,gathering, hut building, dancing around the tribal fire, natural disasters,pandemics, other peoples actions, drinking, mental illness, getting warmer, cooler, finding the best product for your needs, debating metaphysics, watching a mo ie,playing a game, looking up information on the internet, eating, shitting, wiping, flushing, sewers, journals, cities, buildings, farming, war, religion, one upsmanship, laundry, chores, relationships, articles cleaning tour dwelling and living area... — schopenhauer1

Try learning a new sport or art.

I beg to differ. By default living requires survival, usually in a cultural milieu. Unless you practice suicide by asceticism (pace Schopenhauer)..thats what youre doing, along with seeking comfort, and forms of entertainment (which religion and studying philosophy as a hobby fall into). People dont like to hear this reduction, but its true. — schopenhauer1

Still, life is not necessarily about survival, or comfort or entertainment - that’s a matter of perspective, one that prioritises the individual. When someone focuses on risking their life on a daily basis, you can’t tell me their life is all about survival. And just because you may be able to interpret their actions to fit your own perspective, does not mean that’s what they’re doing. This reduction may be ‘true’ for you, but the reason people argue against this is not because they don’t like to hear it, but because it ignores the choices they make to deliberately invite risk, discomfort or boredom into their lives in pursuit of something bigger than their individual limitations.

We are thrown here. You cannot rhetoric your way out of this stste of affairs.

We are thrown here. You cannot rhetoric your way out of this stste of affairs. — schopenhauer1

The way I see it, this notion of ‘thrown-ness’ assumes the ‘self’ or ‘individual’ as a prime substance in relation to ‘here’. It’s a matter of perspective that ignores the construction of the ‘individual’.

The ‘self’ or ‘individual’ is a consolidation process of relational structures that exist regardless of consolidation. This consolidation relies on a) the awareness, connection and collaboration between integrated relational structures; and b) the existence of an overarching relational structure (self-consciousness), in relation to which it is necessarily incomplete.

What is meaningful then is not an individual identity or life, but everything and nothing, without prejudice.
— Possibility

Yes, this is right. Which means that life does not have to be competition.
— Brett

Agreed. Nor does it have to be about survival. — Possibility

Having reached some agreement about this and giving it more thought I still have a snag.

Living the ascetic life, living the life of a Buddhist monk or a Christian in a monastery, it seems to me to be a realm separated from the world, where the walls are a boundary. Life inside is sustained by what is given to them. I know some produce food for themselves with gardens and whatever else they may take part in, but their survival is guaranteed by the outside world, which they do not have to contend with. So the problem of life being competition to survive, or in @schopenhauer1 relentless struggle through the day still seems to ring true to me.

So life doesn’t have to be about competition or survival, but for who?

So life doesn’t have to be about competition or survival, but for who? — Brett

Living is not about living, it is about what you do with your life. I wonder what people, who believe the life is only about trying to continue to live, are doing with their lives? It must be a very boring life. Maybe even depressive? How about doing something with your life so it has some meaning?

How about doing something with your life so it has some meaning? — MondoR

Such as?

Such as — Brett

How about taking up photography and enjoying what you see?

Find a place to live, try to enjoy the food and air, and then have some fun in your life. Even those who are struggling the most, and there are 10s of millions of them, take time out to enjoy time with friends and family.

And what would it’s meaning be?

And what would it’s meaning be? — Brett

To learn, to grow, to evolve. That is what we we are all doing.

Photography can do this, eating food, breathing the air?

Photography can do this, eating food, breathing the air? — Brett

Of course. We learn from everything we do. Constantly.

How does photography do it?

And what would it’s meaning be?
— Brett

To learn, to grow, to evolve. That is what we we are all doing. — MondoR

How do you know that’s the meaning for life?

How does photography do it? — Brett

Photography teaches how to look at the world differently, and when you look at it differently you see me things. You get "new eyes".

The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. [Proust]

How do you know that’s the meaning for life? — Brett

Just observe what everyone is doing.

Photography teaches how to look at the world differently, — MondoR

How?

Just observe what everyone is doing. — MondoR

What is everyone doing?

What is everyone doing? — Brett

Learning and evolving (changing). It's called evolution.

How? — Brett

By study.

How?
— Brett

By study. — MondoR

You’ll need to explain that.

It's called evolution. — MondoR

So that’s the meaning of life?

You’ll need to explain that. — Brett

One studies photography just like one studies philosophy, and you learn something new.

One does not study photography like one studies philosophy. What do you learn from photography?

So that’s the meaning of life? — Brett

Pretty much. We study, we learn, we experiment, we create new things. All of this is happening all of the time, and it is quite enjoyable to learn more about ourselves and the universe we live in.

If you go to take a photograph then you go to a place that already exists. Instead of sitting and being part of it you instead take some photos. Why?

One does not study photography like one studies philosophy. What do you learn from photography? — Brett

Of course one does. Every skill requires study. There are differences of course, but the process of gradual accumulation of knowledge is the same.

So that’s the meaning of life?
— Brett

Pretty much. We study, we learn, we experiment, we create new things. All of this is happening all of the time, and it is quite enjoyable to learn more about ourselves and the universe we live in. — MondoR

It’s seems to me that you think the meaning to life is just doing things. We study, we learn, we create new things. For what purpose?

If you go to take a photograph then you go to a place that already exists. Instead of sitting and being part of it you instead take some photos. Why?
a — Brett

To see something in a new way and share this insight we others, if you wish.