But there is nothing within the concept of "individual" which requires that one is the member of a group. In this way, "individual" is logically prior to "group", because "group" is dependent on "individual", while the inverse is not the case. — Metaphysician Undercover
While the term "individual" may not logically depend on a specific group, it does depend on the concept of a multitude. You can only be an individual if you can be differentiated from someone else in some way. Without this, nothing would give rise to the notion of individuality. — Echarmion
While the term "individual" may not logically depend on a specific group, it does depend on the concept of a multitude. You can only be an individual if you can be differentiated from someone else in some way. Without this, nothing would give rise to the notion of individuality. — Echarmion
This is not true. "Individual" is defined by unity, not by being differentiated from its environment. That's why the universe, which is supposed to be a unity of everything, is an individual without the need of being differentiated from anything else. — Metaphysician Undercover
This is not true. "Individual" is defined by unity, not by being differentiated from its environment. — Metaphysician Undercover
While the term "individual" may not logically depend on a specific group, it does depend on the concept of a multitude. You can only be an individual if you can be differentiated from someone else in some way. Without this, nothing would give rise to the notion of individuality. — Echarmion
From a historical perspective, it seems clear that individuation requires contact with other humans, and there has never been a time in human history where humans did not live in some kind of community. In this sense, "communism" is humanities ancestral form, and individualism is a recent invention. — Echarmion
"Individual" is not synonymous with "Individuality". It is easy to confuse the metaphysical perceptions of "One in existence" and "Being one in existence" — Gus Lamarch
It is very likely that your perception of what a perfect world would be is seriously affecting your perception of reality. Human nature was never "group mentality" "but "egoistic". Man exists to fulfill himself individually, not to fulfill the will of the community, in fact, it is the individual's own action to be fulfilled that consequently creates the community... — Gus Lamarch
Do you have anything specific you can point to here? — Echarmion
band-level societies — Echarmion
The "group" exists only to benefit the individual and its goals. For what reason do you believe that irrational animals - and rational, as in the case of humanity - come together in groups? This "alliance" - commonly referred by us, as community, civilization, etc ... - is simply a consequence of the perception that individuals seek self-realization. Obviously if some people with the same purpose meet, they would probably create some kind of relationship, as this will make it easier for them to reach their individual goals. The fact is, the group only comes to exist - as in the form of the concept - if, and only if, the individual wants it to exist. — Gus Lamarch
This implies that humans start as individuals and then "come together in groups". But that is not what historically happens. Humans always already start out as part of a group, and the rare exceptions where this isn't the case will not have "normal" cognition. — Echarmion
I don't know you, but when I was conceived, I was only me, not a group of any kind. — Gus Lamarch
when you were conveived, you were your mother. — Echarmion
That's not how people use the word individual. Being individual means discrete, e.g. seperated, distinct and differentiated. Unity can be more things united as a whole. So several individuals can form unity. — Benkei
Take the universe as an example of an individual is a bit ridiculous really because quite clearly it contains individuals. — Benkei
I was assuming we go by the common meaning. — Echarmion
"the group must always come before the Self" — Gus Lamarch
"So that 2, 3, 4, 5... may come into being as concepts, the 1 must have been conceived beforehand."
Therefore, the idea that the individual only emerges after the community is nothing more than demagogy or doublethink of those who, having conceived their individuals - their Self - need others to share their freedoms as Beings in order to exacerbate the individual from the conscious one. — Gus Lamarch
Human society - and not just contemporary society - always seems to have sought - and often forced - the homogeneity of the thought that "the group must always come before the Self" and to implement it in civilization. — Gus Lamarch
Human society - and not just contemporary society - always seems to have sought - and often forced - the homogeneity of the thought that "the group must always come before the Self" and to implement it in civilization. — Gus Lamarch
Man exists to fulfill himself individually, not to fulfill the will of the community, in fact, it is the individual's own action to be fulfilled that consequently creates the community... — Gus Lamarch
I am not sure about your idea that being part of a group is central to being a person, or to what extent. Perhaps I am a little bit on the autistic spectrum but I have found that having to spend too much time with others is so stressful. — Jack Cummins
Humans have a natural capacity for empathy. — Kenosha Kid
But I wouldn't interpret that as the group coming before the individual. Our social nature is part of our individual nature (since those biological capacities were selected to benefit the individual) and, while you can have individuals without groups, you may not have groups without individuals. — Kenosha Kid
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