That is why imo no intelligent person can be an atheist. By that I mean that every (intelligent) person must reconcile him- or herself to the sheer fact of mystery, or if you will, death. For each individual, that substance of that reconciliation becomes a theology.
"Theology," then, becomes the name for any answer to ultimate mysteries. As such, the value in any theology lies in its essential efficacy for the person holding it, appeals to science or reason being simply failures to understand the nature of the thing. — tim wood
So going back to my question, what exactly is it that atheists have chosen over being a believer? It seems to me the “truths” they believe in are the same as the believers. — Brett
And here is a problem that is answered here:But unless one is without any sense of ethics and morality then they are essentially still believing in the same thing they did previously except there is no cause. — Brett
Morality and purpose is given to a believer, while morality and purpose have to be determined by an atheist. — Philosophim
By that I mean that every (intelligent) person must reconcile him- or herself to the sheer fact of mystery, or if you will, death. For each individual, that substance of that reconciliation becomes a theology. — tim wood
I am referring to a God that believers believe in. — Brett
That can be any God. — Brett
Morality and purpose is given to a believer, while morality and purpose have to be determined by an atheist. Is there something else beyond this you are curious about? — Philosophim
Again I challenge you: make clear the connection between God and morality. You presuppose it - nothing wrong with that in your church. But we're not in your church and that move for present purpose is illegitimate. — tim wood
As far as connection of morality and God I’m again going by the ethics they practice or claim to live by. And in referring to those ethics I suppose I’m using those referred to in the teachings of Jesus.
— tim wood
I'll go further and challenge you to show that any system of morality/ethics comes from any religion. — tim wood
They may have been. The example of the Nuremberg trials may be illuminating, here. The defendants claimed they were doing what they were instructed to do, following the tenets of their "religion." The prosecution justly argued that was not a defense, that they were severally responsible for their own actions: they were, then, to be held to account as if they were morally responsible.This suggests they were not a moral/ethical person when they believed in God. — Brett
All willing. I have noted that to start we need someone - that would be you - to provide some ground, and lacking which there is no sense to be got. Still waiting. You wish to discuss God? What do you say God is?a real inability to discuss God, — Brett
Of course there is no single precise definition of the word, but there is universal agreement that it has to do with the religion / God / etc.If you think theology is well-defined, can you find that definition and reference it here? — tim wood
Sure, but then talking about theology is talking about systematic studies. Do you begin to see the problem? If by God you mean what some people believe, then talking about God is just talking about what some people believe. But you cannot even do that unless someone will make clear what they believe. "Well," they say, "I believe in God!" Great, but that does not say anything about what you believe, only that you believe.Theology is the systematic study — EricH
What do you care what they say they believe in? Do you care what Hindus believe in? One calls this amorphous thing "God," the other calls it "Brahman," etc. Who knows what they mean by these terms? — Xtrix
As to your church and your beliefs, it is your presuppositions that I characterize, and they are on display here. — tim wood
I have noted that to start we need someone - that would be you - to provide some ground, and lacking which there is no sense to be got. Still waiting. You wish to discuss God? What do you say God is? — tim wood
If by God you mean what some people believe, then talking about God is just talking about what some people believe. But you cannot even do that unless someone will make clear what they believe. "Well," they say, "I believe in God!" Great, but that does not say anything about what you believe, only that you believe. — tim wood
And lacking that groundedness or any groundedness, talking about God or theology is just like talking about truth: in both cases there is no such thing. And there's your incoherence. — tim wood
For all those avowed atheists out there; if God and the beliefs in God’s existence and actions have no validity, no claim to truth, then what truth have you replaced them with? — Brett
I was born an atheist like everyone else. — Kenosha Kid
I don’t think you can be born an atheist. An atheist is someone who repudiates the existence of God. — Brett
Yes. It seems to me that the morality and purpose given to a believer and the morality and purpose that has to be determined by an atheist are the same. — Brett
I assume your idea of purpose and morality is essentially what a Christian God is all about. — Brett
When you realised there was some idea out there about God how did you respond? — Brett
Really, being ignorant of something is a long way from repudiating something. — Brett
Presuppose. You appear to presuppose that moral agency results from having a belief in God. Let us discard "belief" and "God" as undefined and possibly undefinable terms - if you disagree, then define 'em. We're left with your presupposition that moral agency results from and only from some specific experiences and beliefs. I ask you merely to make clear the necessity of that connection.Quote me instances of my apparent beliefs about God. — Brett
I find it highly unlikely that you don’t know what they mean by those terms. — Brett
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.