You guys seem to be equating attachment with desire. They are very different things. As you say, if the Buddha hadn't desired anything, he wouldn't have got out of bed to eat. But he did. So that suggests that they're not the same thing. — khaled
Desire is more specific, or narrowly focused on specific things (money, sex, objects, etc.), whereas attachment is more abstract (life, pleasure, etc.). So we desire whatever it is we desire because it fulfills/sustains (temporarily, of course) an attachment. — Pinprick
it could suggest many things; that the Buddha didn’t literally mean what he said, that he was imperfect, that he lied, etc. — Pinprick
The way you defined it I don't see a hard line between what counts as a "desire" and what counts as an "attachment", they both just seem to be talking abou the same thing to me. — khaled
"Why are you participating in the tournament?" "Because I want to win" is that attachment or desire? — khaled
The way I use the term "attachment" is radically different from what you just outlined. — khaled
I find the first much more likely considering how many people seem to find sense in what he says. — khaled
I see attachment as something that lies underneath desire, that causes desire. Desire is more specific, or narrowly focused on specific things (money, sex, objects, etc.), whereas attachment is more abstract (life, pleasure, etc.). So we desire whatever it is we desire because it fulfills/sustains (temporarily, of course) an attachment. — Pinprick
Don’t understand the question. — Wayfarer
It’s as hard as the line between cause and effect. Attachment causes desires. — Pinprick
Well, it depends on two things; whether or not wanting to win caused you to participate in the tournament, and how general/specific an answer the questioner accepts. If the questioner is looking for a sort of “first cause” the questioning would continue with “why do you want to win?” But this issue arises when determining cause and effect as well. If someone shoots me, what is my cause of death? The bullet entering my brain? The person who pulled the trigger? Me for pissing off the person that pulled the trigger? It can go on and on, but an effect is always preceded by a cause. — Pinprick
So how do you define it? — Pinprick
This is just an aside for me, but there are still plenty of other options. Translation issues, the meaning of the term could have changed in 2000 years, perhaps he didn’t fully understand what he meant. Perhaps people find sense in what he said because it is vague enough to allow people to project or insert their own concepts into it? — Pinprick
I don’t know, and I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, but your conviction looks a bit more like faith than fact to me. — Pinprick
Almost as if you consider ancient secondhand accounts of the Buddha’s teachings to be infallible or divinely inspired. — Pinprick
Lets assume you reach some sort of Nirvana state if you manage to sever all forms of attachment - is that something most of us would even want? It would mean abandoning family, love, friendships. It would just be you, and, I guess, the universe. — BitconnectCarlos
How attatched you are to something is answered by asking yourself "How big of a problem would it be if I didn't have this/this didn't happen?" The answer to that is usually different from what we desire. There is supposedly a sort of mental "Sweet spot" where you want things but at the same time are not distraught at failing to get them.
— khaled
OK, your kid's getting treatment for childhood leukemia. You want your kid to live.
Where's the sweet spot?
This may seem snotty picking such an extreme example, but at the same time it really highlights, to me, that there is, at root, a division in Buddhism. Accept what it outside you, but try to dampen certain things inside you. — deletedusercb
Life is a negotiated collaboration with the world, not a well-worn path through a shopping aisle. Loss, lack, pain and humility are all part of the process, and we have more capacity to adjust than we think. — Possibility
I would add that in Buddhist doctrine, it's not so much that we "adjust" to suffering it's more like we get rid of maladjustments. Our expectations that the world will go as we predict are tools that allow us to act but that come with a risk. For example, I expect my interenet to work flawlessly at all times, this allows me to take it as a "given", which then removes any barriers to me say, streaming a movie or playing a videogame. If I thought there was a 50% chance my internet would disconnect randomly within the next hour I would not start either of those things.
This expectation allows me to do things I otherwise wouldn't, but it comes with the cost that I suffer when the reality doesn't match the prediction. Expectations simplify tasks to allow us to act more easily, most are a maladjustment to reality. How badly they are maladjustments depends on how accurate they are and how attached we are to them. Paranoia is attachment to predictions that are completely out of whack for example. — khaled
but I’m also prepared for it to possibly NOT work — Possibility
How you determine a ‘maladjustment’ is based on subjective/culturally influenced perception of value/potentiality. — Possibility
I am glad if you are able to clarify your thoughts through discussions on threads because that should be the purpose of philosophy. It may involve hard questions. Attachment is a monster and I am sure that there are even some dragons to come yet. — Jack Cummins
Even if we follow the path of self realisation and self-analysis, I think that attachments are still likely to play a large part. I do believe that we can work on particular areas which we can work on, but not all the areas at once. Meditation has an a central role but do not necessarily have to aim to become sages. Of course, if becoming one occurs in the process it may be the best possibility, but if we were to seek that goal it might become a hollow attachment ideal in itself. — Jack Cummins
That is a good question, although it is as if we are living in space capsules during this year of social isolation, with need or unmet needs. My imagined fantasy of a space capsule with all my needs met would be the chance for freedom to pursue the writing and artistic life. But I would probably still want to meet others. Nevertheless, I would prefer the space bubble to a really stressful social situation.
2 minutes ago
Reply
Options — Jack Cummins
Even if we follow the path of self realisation and self-analysis, I think that attachments are still likely to play a large part. — Jack Cummins
Meaningful connections are fine, but sometimes they become more than this, or we would probably not have friendships or relationships at all, including sexual ones. Also, sometimes we want connections with others and this is not reciprocated and this leads to the negative side of attachments. — Jack Cummins
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.