However, thinking about attachment and life, including essentials like having a place to live, good health, sight and hearing, food, need for others and private space, I am left wondering how much can be seen as basic need and how much is about our attachment? — Jack Cummins
'What's right for me' is no longer moored to any larger purpose or cosmic sense, it's anchored mainly by screen-time. — Wayfarer
The problem with this is that there is no "larger purpose or cosmic sense". — Janus
Even this more modest pragmatic goal is not easy to achieve given the general skepticism of science and the spinelessness of authorities when it comes to making the hard truths known to the populace. — Janus
I think that we have a lot of work to do. — Jack Cummins
Should we seek to overcome attachment, to what extent, and can it be achieved ? Whether or not one adopts these worldviews, we can ask whether attachment is a problem and, should we seek to overcome our attachments at all? — Jack Cummins
Says the Secular Thought Police. :razz: — Wayfarer
‘Beasts are driven to the pasture by blows’ ~ Heraclitus. Harsh, but true. — Wayfarer
The point is that Buddhism is as much a form of attachment as any other pursuit. — Janus
I don't see any reason to think that caring about anything would not involve some degree of attachment. — Janus
it does not follow that Buddhism advocates violence. — Janus
From the fact that some people, who lived in a country where Buddhism (along with Shinto) was a predominant religion, practiced violence — Janus
In Buddhist and Hindu religious texts the opposite concept is expressed as upādāna, translated as "attachment". — Janus
Judaka
All it takes to become attached to something is to care,
and caring is worth more than the pitfalls of attachment by itself.
— Judaka
Is it not possible to care about something without being attached to it (without it being a problem to lose it)? — khaled
Brett
The word “care” is a bit of a problem for me. I’m not sure what exactly it means.
— Brett
Does "Want" work better? I'm basically asking: "Is it not possible to want something without it being a problem not to have it?" — khaled
The point is that I don't believe there is a person on the planet who is totally free of desire or attachment; and I don't think that to be totally free of desire and attachment is even a desirable ideal. — Janus
I wanted to revisit the word “care”. To “want” something is different than to “care” about something. So I’m going back to the idea of “caring” for something. — Brett
We seem to form attachments without much thought. We all do it in different ways, we find different things to be important or valuable. So attachments seem to be part of human nature, even though different cultures might have different attachments, though there are consistent attachments across all cultures, — Brett
like the care for children or family. — Brett
So these attachments contribute towards a healthy strong community. — Brett
Can you still keep the advantages (strong healthy community, interpersonal relationships, etc) without attachments? — khaled
Sure we often form attachments to our children and family but I don't think those are necessary for us to love them. If someone's dad passes away at 80 years old peacefully in his bed and the person in question is at peace with the fact (doesn't mourn or cry) does that mean he didn't care about his dad? I don't think that's fair. — khaled
So I don’t think we can expect healthy communities and interpersonal relationships without attachments. — Brett
I’m not sure what your point is about the dying man. — Brett
“Grief is the price we pay for love.” — Brett
if someone doesn't grieve does that mean they didn't love the person who just died? I don't think so. — khaled
Sure. But the question isn’t whether or not it’s possible or whether or not it’s desirable (at least that’s not what I’m interested in). The question is: does it have downsides? Is it theoretically possible to want things just as much without being affected at losing them. Buddhists would say yes, I’m not so sure. — khaled
what would be the perfect human being? Would it be the ascetic way, or would it be more about caring for others? Would it involve attachments, or be free of them? — Jack Cummins
If Buddhists say yes, that is because it is an article of their faith. — Janus
If it isn't desirable that would be because it has downsides. — Janus
But on the other hand you have evidence to show it isn’t possible? Even though we know it can be approached. What is that evidence? — khaled
And you say it isn’t desirable. So what are the downsides? — khaled
The downside is that nothing would be more important to a person without any attachment than anything else. — Janus
The evidence for me is that I have never met anyone I could say was free of attachment. The accounts of the lives of so-called gurus I have read attest to the same conclusion. So, I think freedom from all attachment is more likely a fantasized ideal; — Janus
you can't have one without the other. — Janus
Of course it's theoretically (as in logically) possible to want things without being affected by losing, or not getting them — Janus
you can't have one without the other. — Janus
Of course it's theoretically (as in logically) possible to want things without being affected by losing, or not getting them — Janus
Which is it? And I’m sure you can think of examples where you wanted things without not having them being a proven and vice versa. — khaled
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