Obviously if he thinks he won, he wants to find the missing votes, like you would if you lost some dollars you would want to find the missing money. Different from asking to forge money or manufacture votes. — FreeEmotion

If you're trying to contextualize this so that we can better understand the meaning of the word "find," you have to consider the whole context, not just what Trump's personal belief was about the validity of the election (and who knows what that really is). The role of the Secretary of State is to count the votes and to declare a winner, regardless of who that might be. Obviously there are times when the party of the Secretary of State will not be the party of the person who wins a given election, but that doesn't change the charge of the SoS. That is to say, the role of the SoS isn't to go out and "find" votes for a particular candidate like he's on an Easter egg hunt. What he is to do is count the votes and be sure the election was valid, which he did. In this case, the SoS counted the votes 3 times, once on election night, then he conducted a hand count, and then he did an electronic recount, and then he certified the election.

And to further contextualize this, Trump knew very well when he spoke to Raffensperger that Raffensperger did not believe the election to be stolen, so Trump knew very well that Raffensperger would not have accepted such a strained definition of "find" when Trump asked him to find more votes. That is to say, even if Trump truly believed votes were stolen and then stuffed into some nook and cranny, he had no reason to believe that Raffensperger would take the term "find" to be anything other than a euphemism for the term "fabricate." It makes sense that one would use a term how they expect the listener to understand it, unless Trump only meant to be talking to himself.

And to further contextualize this, within the same conversation, Trump told Raffensperger how mad Georgians were about this result and there was the allusion to criminal prosecution for some unknown sort of crime if additional votes weren't found. What this means is that we have the most powerful man in the world (although his power is fading fast) telling a local SoS to locate ballots that will swing the state's election in his favor, and if the votes aren't found, Raffensperger will lose his next election and will then be off to jail.

That's what happened. You can fully support Trump if you want to, but trying to cast the conversation between Trump and Raffensperger as an innocuous call to the lost and found department in search of the votes Trump thinks might have been left at the booth at the diner is pretty much nonsense.

But he doesn't need to "find" them, he can just "recalculate" it. Because 1 +1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1n can easily be recalculated as

$\sum_{n=1}^\infty \frac{1}{n^2} = \frac{\pi^2}{6}$

Trump has stated that he will do everything within his power, legally and constitutionally, to contest the results, which is his right. Of course, the Uniparty media never reported on that.

According to Trump, all he needs to do is find around 12,000 ballots to win, which is more than enough reason to contest the results.

Does a chess game include the possibility of cheating? Of course not. And at the moment of cheating, it is no longer a chess game. So according to you, Trump is still playing chess when he explicitly is no longer playing chess. Never mind what that makes him, but your claim makes you, at the most charitable, a fool, but not the funny kind.

So far, at the most charitable, you are a slanderer and defamer, because all you can do is accuse. I need a little more than the accusation, Tim.

According to Trump, all he needs to do is find around 12,000 ballots to win, which is more than enough reason to contest the results. — NOS4A2

There is no "reason" to be had in this. Whatever reason there may have been has been addressed and more than addressed. But you adduce reason. I do not accuse; I state fact. And in consideration of, on the basis of many, many of your posts, you are represented in them as a bad man. And I take you as such.

There is no "reason" to be had in this. Whatever reason there may have been has been addressed and more than addressed. But you adduce reason. I do not accuse; I state fact. And in consideration of, on the basis of many, many of your posts, you are represented in them as a bad man. And I take you as such.

Yes I think the fact that it was a close race, a difference of around 12000 votes out of 5 or so million, warrants a closer look at the results, especially given the claims of fraud and irregularity. Either way, refusing the claims of election officials, there is no way to know without an independent, transparent audit of some sort.

No; you accuse. Your accusations are myriad, yet always without sufficient basis. They are pitiful in the way that your accusations seem to be for your own benefit, like you're trying to justify your own poor reasoning.

warrants a closer look at the results, especially given the claims of fraud and irregularity. — NOS4A2

Ah. But the claims made, and the vote counted, and the vote counted, and the vote counted - three times, yes? - and then certified. That leaves the conclusion that the vote will only be "right" when Trump has more votes, and how do you, nos4, see that happening? The love of your life marries another man; does that mean you get to marry her, or to try to marry her? That's foreclosed at the marriage. After that, your efforts are an attack on both persons and community. And in your posts, that where you are, attacking beyond reason or any warrant or justification - because all of those matters are settled.

And were you stupid, one could just write you off as stupid. But you're not. What would you call you, then?

Like I said, an independent and transparent investigation would be required. Instead we get the opposite, and we are left taking the word of the same officials who told us to accept the results in the first place.

Call me what you want, Tim. I just don't care. You've called me evil, a liar, a bad man, and have compared me to almost every animal in a menagerie. What does that make you?

According to Trump, all he needs to do is find around 12,000 ballots to win, which is more than enough reason to contest the results. — NOS4A2

Except that isn't true. Winning Georgia means he still loses overall.

Also he's been at this for 2 months, there have been multiple recounts, and he lost all of his court cases. As someone on the left I can definitely say that I'm tired of winning at this point.

Except that isn't true. Winning Georgia means he still loses overall.

Also he's been at this for 2 months and he lost all of his court cases. As someone on the left I can definitely say that I'm tired of winning at this point.

The president is clearly talking about winning Georgia.

Aren't you from the UK? What have you won?

The president is clearly talking about winning Georgia. — NOS4A2

And I fail to see how something so pointless would give him "more than enough reason" to try to undermine the will of the people... again.

You've called me evil, a liar, a bad man,... — NOS4A2

You’re a proven liar and just wrote “I love it” in response to evidence of the president apparently engaging in illegal activity. Whatever constitutes a “bad man,” you must certainly be in the ballpark.

... and have compared me to almost every animal in a menagerie. What does that make you? — NOS4A2

A comparative zoologist? :chin:

Your name-calling is about as suspect as your stoicism.

"Apparently engaging in illegal activity". For what, exactly?

Like I said, an independent and transparent investigation would be required. — NOS4A2

What kind of precedent is that? Anytime a candidate is unhappy with an election result, they can demand, and receive, an "independent and transparent investigation". Investigation into what? The vote was not even close, and there is no evidence of widespread fraud. There is nothing to investigate. Why would they investigate this or that state, and not all the states? What would they even be investigating, the American democratic system in general? No investigation is required. The reasons for an investigation which we hear touted, that millions of voters have lost faith in the system, would not be resolved by "an investigation". That's completely nonsensical. The demand for "an investigation" is an obvious political ploy. A dishonest one, I might add.

It holds more weight than starting vast investigations premised on rumors, such as crossfire hurricane and the Mueller report.

They should investigate all the states. They should investigate both parties. I see nothing wrong with an independent, transparent investigation, and nothing you've said convinces me otherwise.

"Apparently engaging in illegal activity". For what, exactly? — NOS4A2

The point isn’t to try convincing you of illegal activity, the point is that you “love” such activity, and that a person who loves this sort of activity is not a good person.

The point isn’t to try convincing you of illegal activity, the point is that you “love” such activity, and that a person who loves this sort of activity is not a good person.

I never said I love “illegal activity”. This is why we get strange conclusions from false premises, or in this case, lies.

What struck me most was the pleading tone in Trump's voice. This was not a man confident at wielding power. This was a sore loser begging for help. It was pleading and pathetic. — StreetlightX

#Trumpbegged is trending. Cringeworthy.

I never said I love “illegal activity”. This is why we get strange conclusions from false premises, or in this case, lies. — NOS4A2

You wrote:

Perfect Trumpian phone call. I love it. — NOS4A2

Whether or not the activity is illegal you express love for this sort of activity. In other words, you love it when a president appears to uses their power to pressure a secretary of state to commit voter fraud. Good people don't love such things. Or perhaps you love it when Trump begs like a whiny dog?

If this type of call had happened mid-term, with, say, a contested run-off, it would certainly be grounds for impeachment. The only reason impeachment is not going to be pursued this point, is because there's not enough time left in Trump's term to bother. (Please, bring on the day.....)

You sound morose. I guess I would be if the roles were reversed. Hee hee heee. :razz:

independent and transparent investigation — NOS4A2

If Trump and his supporters would be satisfied with the results of such an investigation there might be some merit in this proposal. But when that investigation came up with nothing would Trump say "OK, this was investigated and they found nothing. I concede - let me give a very belated congratulations to President Biden"?

Of course not. Trump (and his supporters) would reject such results and still find something wrong with any investigation. If Trump is not willing to take the word of Secretary General William Barr what on earth makes you think he would accept the results of an independent (i.e., bipartisan) investigation?

Not to mention there's been sixty lawsuits about Trump's allegations of fraud, and all but one were tossed out immediately as having no merit, standing in law, or evidence. So if all those courts, including the Supreme Court, and all the electoral offices and state political officers don't constitute an source of 'independent judgement' of the validity of the poll, then how can you justify a kangaroo court picked by one of the greived parties? It's plainly an ongoing attempt to steal the election.

There is only one 'massive fraud' in respect of the 2020 US Presidential Election, and that is the one being perpertrated by the incumbent.

Whether or not the activity is illegal you express love for this sort of activity. In other words, you love it when a president appears to uses their power to pressure a secretary of state to commit voter fraud. Good people don't love such things. Or perhaps you love it when Trump begs like a whiny dog?

A far more adept politician would buckle under the public pressure, but instead Trump is doing right by his constituents, most of whom believe Biden is illegitimate and voter fraud affected the outcome. That’s why I love it.

What illegal activity are you suggesting?

On my feed...



(Bit generous about the fact that Clinton actively angled to have Trump as her opponent because she thought she was not as utter shite as she in fact was).

Also not sure what's more pathetic - Trump's begging or watching a sniveling lapdog like NOS pretend like this is fine. Probably the latter. At least Trump's a fuckin loser on his own terms. NOS is a fucking loser on someone else's.

A far more adept politician would buckle under the public pressure, but instead Trump is doing right by his constituents, most of whom believe Biden is illegitimate and voter fraud affected the outcome. That’s why I love it. — NOS4A2

This seems to imply that you believe there was organized widespread voter fraud because if this were simply another one of his cons it wouldn't necessarily serve his constituent's interests. If that's the case, I'm curious about something. I know there's tons of "evidence" supporting the fraud conspiracy, but why have no conspirators been exposed? Who orchestrated the fraud? Isn't it odd that in two months no culprits have been discovered?

Even the Muller investigation turned up some bad apples and prosecuted them.

Would this be applicable here?
§ 21-2-604. Criminal solicitation to commit election fraud; penalties :: 2016 Georgia Code

Or, I guess Trump could try suing Raffensperger for recording the call? :D

Dang, lawyering must be good business these days.

At least NOS4A2's cognomen honestly represents his hero: a malignant, undead parasite, draining the lifeblood from his host. 2021 America is looking awful pale.

Trump is a hero to QAnon. QAnon, which is now a fusion of anti-vaxers, people who either believe COVID19 is spread by 5G or believe that it's a hoax, and just full lunatics, is the kind of group that will thrive once a normal person takes the white house. They'll also continue to help split the Republican party. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.