https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/barr-trump-committed-betrayal-of-his-office-455812

When you lose even Bill Barr...guess he must be caught up in this unnecessary "moral panic." Let's stay calm as our capital is besieged. No reason to get hysterical, ladies.

They're all jumping ship, including a surprising number of his supporters. I'm seeing it even in online forums -- Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc.

Makes you wonder, though: had this happened a few months ago, or even a year or two ago -- before he lost the election and the Georgia runoffs -- would there be such a universal outrage? Would there be resignations? Editorials of condemnation? I have my doubts.

Seems awfully convenient for the people that enabled him for 4 years. But we'll see if they impeach and remove him. That'll be the real test. If they don't, then my question has been answered. If they do, I would still wonder. Still, I give his removal a 20% chance.

Had she been attacking him, perhaps. But she wasn’t. The shooter was under no threat. — NOS4A2

Hey, you're sounding like a BLM supporter. :up:

There are far worse tragedies in this world. I see this one more as a ‘what did they except’ kind of tragedy, like when a drunken fool tries to walk on top of a train or to give a blow job to a bear... Darwin award material. — Olivier5

Nahh, many people do silly things. Indeed a drunk fool also does not deserve to die. You have a rather cavalier attitude to human life, but I think it is for the sake of argument.

Had she been attacking him, perhaps. But she wasn’t. The shooter was under no threat. — NOS4A2

Well, if there is a gang of violent people descending on you, you may well have a different perception of the situation. Legally, that is a key question. Could this officer reasonably feel under direct imminent and unlawful attack? I do not know but it cannot be ruled out. She herself was no direct threat but the whole mob was. She was an unfortunate death.

Well, if there is a gang of violent people descending on you, you may well have a different perception of the situation. Legally, that is a key question. Could this officer reasonably feel under direct imminent and lawful attack? I do not know but it cannot be ruled out. She herself was no direct threat but the whole mob was. She was an unfortunate victim.

They were not attacking anyone, as far as I’m aware. They were certainly breaching the barricade. They were certainly pushing past police and destroying windows and a door. The victim certainly tried to crawl through the broken window. But she was shot before she could get through, as evidenced by her falling back into the room. The shooter, a man in a suit (secret service) was at the other window hiding behind a wall pointing his gun at people. It was like an ambush. He suddenly swung to shoot her as she tried to enter, seemingly without warning or care. I cannot say whether he thought his life was in imminent danger.

Here is a link to the video. It’s graphic.

https://twitter.com/thejaydenxander/status/1347056697899163648?s=21

Indeed a drunk fool also does not deserve to die. You have a rather cavalier attitude to human life, but I think it is for the sake of argument. — Tobias

You have a rather cavalier attitude to attacks on democracy.

But she was shot before she could get through, as evidenced by her falling back into the room. — NOS4A2

Shit may happen when you attack a federal building, I suppose.

Shit may happen when you attack a federal building, I suppose. — Olivier5

Try to imagine the same attack being perpetuated by people of non-white skin ... or by those utterly evil "anti-fascists" (an attitude which blatantly specifies whom the good guys are: those who are not antagonistic to fascism but, instead, either endorse it or are indifferent to it).

The shit you've specified would have been a lot worse. More along the lines of a slaughter. "Why" we wonder (sarcasm here).

But then, those who are not anti-democracy wouldn't attack a democratic institution to begin with.

Try to imagine the same attack being perpetuated by people of non-white skin ... — javra

You got that right. They're crying because the dead terrorist is blond.

Drop the act of being objective or truly interested in any way. Just jump right to the complete rationalization of what happened yesterday. Spare yourself the mental gymnastics. — Xtrix

I’m surprised you found it necessary to pick out my posts (naturally you left out the resolution to my questions) so that you could then make your accusation. I’m interested in this a great deal, just not from your perspective. But I get that this is an OP where you can legitimately behave in a way that would be unacceptable on other OPs. Still, what was your point?

US Capitol Police officer has died following pro-Trump riot

A US Capitol Police officer has died from events stemming from Wednesday's riot at the Capitol, three sources confirm to CNN, in which a mob of President Donald Trump's supporters stormed the building to stop the counting of electoral votes that affirmed President-elect Joe Biden's win.

The police officer is now the fifth person to die as a result of the day's violence. One woman was shot and killed by Capitol Police as the crowd breached the building and three others suffered medical emergencies that proved fatal.

I'm not sure what your motives or intentions are. I don't think you're trolling, exactly, but I don't think you're not-trolling either. I think the thrill of throwing rhetorical flashbangs into the narratives of others can yield a certain dopamine hit, and I think that thrill can take on its own momentum and leave you in a half-serious commitment to counter-narratives that sustain your capacity to keep getting those flashbang-throwing hits. Of course nothing I'm going to say is going to sway you one way or the other, but I imagine every now and again - in the shower, cooking dinner, waiting in line somewhere - some thought floats through your mind about the niche you've carved in the discourse ecosystem (what sort of things you say in order to get people to talk to you) and what led you to set up shop in that way. It becomes progressively harder to survive outside the niche you've carved as time goes on. There was a smart guy I worked with who was like that - he both believed and didn't believe what he was saying, but because he'd stuck to it for so long, there was no way for him to get out of it, and he'd oscillate between flashbangs and bids at trying out a different way - but he'd carved himself so deep, there was no way out of it. At a certain point, all you have left is negative attention vs no attention. Be careful.

He's finally conceded.

Lol, reading from a pre-prepared script. Scared shitless of being removed and jailed the poor little thing.

Meanwhile, a police officer was confirmed murdered by one of NOS's heroic rioters. I guess blue lives don't matter to MAGAts after all.

Either that or they were holding his two scoops of ice cream as hostage.

Either that or they were holding his two scoops of ice cream as hostage. — Michael

:lol:

They were not attacking anyone, as far as I’m aware. They were certainly breaching the barricade. They were certainly pushing past police and destroying windows and a door. The victim certainly tried to crawl through the broken window. But she was shot before she could get through, as evidenced by her falling back into the room. The shooter, a man in a suit (secret service) was at the other window hiding behind a wall pointing his gun at people — NOS4A2

"Breaching the barricades"...

You once likened the George Floyd unrest/riots to "insurrection", but breaching barricades in a capitol building and getting shot for it is an ambush?

It was like an ambush. He suddenly swung to shoot her as she tried to enter, seemingly without warning or care. I cannot say whether he thought his life was in imminent danger. — NOS4A2

Looking at the video you linked, the secret service agent clearly had his gun drawn and hanging out of the door for quite a while before he fired. We cannot see his mouth or hear properly through the noise, but it's likely that he was verbally warning them (But I mean, come on; if you break into a secure federal government compound and start climbing over barricades, you should know you're liable for getting shot, right?).

.....


I want to say it feels like this should put an end to the circus, but I know better than that by now...

Murdered? Cause of death confirmed?

Yes, head bashed in by a Trump supporter MAGAt terrorist wielding a fire extinguisher.

https://www.pix11.com/news/national-news/capitol-police-officer-dies-after-being-hit-in-head-with-fire-extinguisher-by-a-rioter-source

Still don't understand the rationale of having a user on this site who repeatedly cites and parrots nefarious lies of radical rightwing publications, and then acts like he never believed in it to begin with when he's called out on it, or just ignores it entirely and moves on to the next fabrication to waste everyone's time with.

Every respectable place needs a resident jester.

I fucking said yesterday there was nothing celebratory, admirable or heroic about this moronic mob attack. Now that there are five dead, including a police officer, maybe those of you who disagreed will admit you were wrong.

You have a rather cavalier attitude to attacks on democracy. — Olivier5

Not at all. I feel democracy can and should defend itself and yes that might mean opening fire on rioters that threaten to overwhelm government buildings. However that does not mean I cannot also find the deaths that this leads to tragic. Such an attack is not black and white, it is black and black.

Maybe not murder though.

Yes, it might have been just an accident. The police officer could have been attempting to head the fire extinguisher thinking it was a soccer ball. I'm going with presuming the most likely scenario.

lol

Every respectable place needs a resident jester. — Michael

In all seriousness I don't know what that's supposed to mean. He's a batshit goon and he adds no value to any conversation because his fundamental characteristic is that he's a dishonest interlocutor. He has the demeanor of a troll without the intelligence.

The cabinet has not agreed to remove him. Maybe we'll have to get him on camera and make a statement instead.

It's fairly handy to have someone seemingly earnestly trot out les memes du jour, especially since this is a mostly left-leaning forum. Becoming familiar with right-wing arguments, and deploying/refining them in legitimate rhetorical standoffs, is really the best way to develop persuasive power over those that accept them in the wild.

As sad as this might sound, Nos is pretty much representative of the bleeding edge of republican rhetoric. Whatever he deploys here is exactly the kind of thing that we are likely to see republican echo chambers reflect. He gets a chance to test and refine his shtick, and we get the chance to map and neutralize it (if only for ourselves).