“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” — NOS4A2

Like I said, criminals who are proficient liars will be allowed to go unpunished, if we allow intention to be substituted with ignorance. Notice your quoted statement indicates absolutely nothing about Trump's intentions, so it provides no argument for a lack of intent. It's only a statement about what he claims to know about the intent of others. And we know he's a proficient liar. So his claimed ignorance of the intent of the others is nothing but a lie intended to substitute intent with ignorance.

Like I said, criminals who are proficient liars will be allowed to go unpunished, if we allow intention to be substituted with ignorance. Notice your quoted statement indicates absolutely nothing about Trump's intentions, so it provides no argument for a lack of intent. It's only a statement about what he claims to know about the intent of others. And we know he's a proficient liar. So his claimed ignorance of the intent of the others is nothing but a lie intended to substitute intent with ignorance.

Donald Trump said he wanted to contest the results legally and peacefully. Not only that, but he has been quite opposed to riots, violence and vandalism for the entirety of his presidency. There is zero evidence he wanted any violence or riot or insurrection to occur. His speech is protected by the 1st amendment, and does not rise to the level of “immanent lawless action”.

Donald Trump said he wanted to contest the results legally and peacefully. — NOS4A2

But he also stated that he had gone as far as he could go legally. Then he continued to hold rallies during which he spoke about fighting to take back the country. Yes, he wanted to change the results legally and peacefully, and before that he wanted to win the election. What is consistent in his intent, is that he wanted to continue to be president.

Because of this consistency, we can say that his overall intent is to continue being president, that is his priority. Plan A, was to win the election. Plan B was to go to court and win the legal challenge. Notice that in all the time that he was working on plan A, he was also sowing the seeds of discontent concerning mail in voting, preparing for plan B in case plan A failed. Evidentially, plan A failed. Then, plan B became plan A, top priority. At this time he needed a new plan B in case the legal attempt failed. So, he held rallies, drumming up support for plan C, violent insurrection, which was now plan B. When the plan B, legal challenges, failed, plan C became plan A, top priority.

See, you must account for the occurrence of, and the intent behind those rallies. They are not election campaigning, so the original plan A is ruled out. They are not part of the court challenge, so plan B, the legal challenge is ruled out. They can only be part of a plan C. And we saw the results of that plan.

What Trump said could be completely irrelevant to what Trump's intentions were, we know this from his propensity toward lying. We must judge his intentions by his actions, and we need to account for those rallies. They are not a part of an election campaign, nor are they a part of contesting the results legally and peacefully. They did have significant consequences. Trump's only defense is ignorance, 'I didn't expect this to happen', as if he had no plan C. But ignorance is no defense in criminal trials.

he's a master brander — frank

Trump brand equity is shrinking by the minute so obviously not a master.

He did tap into it. I'm not convinced it was a conscious effort though and believe that he happened to tap into it by accident. Right guy at the right time sorry of thing. His ability to rile up people and get them enthusiastic is obvious and that's the emotional intelligence I referred to before.

At the same time he's a thin-skinned narcissist with hardly any self control, so emotionally stunted and stupid there.

The big problem is there is no evidence of any plan for violent insurrection. We don’t even need to pick and choose disparate and ambiguous words from an hour long speech to make the case because he was quite explicit about plan C: “We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women”.

Might he be lying and, unbeknownst to everyone but a bunch of Q-tards, plotting a violent insurrection? It’s certainly possible. And frankly, I don’t blame people for believing it. The media has been pumping that sort of conspiracy theory for quite some time, so it’s no wonder that both Trump’s opponents and some of his supporters have come to believe it. Up until the rally the media was running with the conspiracy theory that he’d evoke martial law or the insurrection act. So it’s no surprise that some showed up for battle. What the media never showed was Trump’s explicit desire to do it legally and according to the constitution, which is his right, and which many have done before him. Perhaps if they did, there would be no such violence.

The big problem is there is no evidence of any plan for violent insurrection. — NOS4A2

There is never conclusive evidence of a plan, only actions consistent with one. This is the tweeting and the rallies.

Might he be lying and, unbeknownst to everyone but a bunch of Q-tards, plotting a violent insurrection? — NOS4A2

The big problem is with this statement. It was not unbeknownst to everyone. To most, it was very clear that Trump's tweeting and rallying was very consistent with the intent of plotting violent insurrection. Most of us could see very clearly that unless measures were taken to prevent it, this would be the outcome.

What the media never showed was Trump’s explicit desire to do it legally and according to the constitution, which is his right, and which many have done before him. Perhaps if they did, there would be no such violence. — NOS4A2

The media judged Trump by his actions, not by his explicit desire. This is because he is a known liar, deceiver, and con artist. Therefore his explicit desire is inconsistent with his true desire. Sorry to shatter your illusion NOS4A2, but you just cannot judge a proven lying, deceiving, con artist, by his explicit desire.

Trump brand equity is shrinking by the minute so obviously not a master. — praxis

Do you remember his nickname for H. Clinton?

He did tap into it. I'm not convinced it was a conscious effort though and believe that he happened to tap into it by accident. Right guy at the right time sorry of thing. Hi — Benkei

That would require that he have a set of principles. I don't think he did. He was a kick ass demagogue.

I have no clue why you think principles are necessary. Can you explain?

have no clue why you think principles are necessary. Can you explain? — Benkei

Your view was that he accidentally connected with the American people. I assume you meant he started with certain principles he believed in and those principles accidentally meshed with public concerns.

The big problem is there is no evidence of any plan for violent insurrection. — NOS4A2

For fucks sake....

Oh yes, when nobody publicly says that they are going to attempt an insurrection tomorrow, it obviously wasn't an insurrection! Rhe storming of the Capitol Hill was a logical and obvious consequence to all the bullshit perpetrated earlier by Trump & the gang. It's no surprise that people who believe in Q-Anon bullshit do take these things seriously... when it's the biggest scam in history.

For example, the ex-Tweeter in Chief did tweet things like this one from last year December 26th:


Or this one:


Since the kidnapping plot of Gretchen Whitmer it's all quite evident where this is leading to. Or even with the pre-Trump era shooting of Gabrielle Gifford and others in 2011. Or the attack on the congressional baseball game in 2017 (where the targets were Republicans, btw). Those all were canary in the coal mine events showing just where things are going in Weimar America. But the person that increased most the polarization, the alienation and the vitriol, was President Trump.

Believe me, now for the terrorism part during the Biden years. Bombs blowing and that sort.

So happy that I and my family visited Washington DC and New York in 2019. I always remember the walk from our hotel in DC to the stairs of the Capitol Hill where the US Marine Corps Band was playing "patriotic" music in the warm summer night with a crowd of laid back Americans listening to the music. It felt so nice, relaxed and it reminded me how nice Seattle was in my childhood. Hope that America isn't lost yet.

As predicted, the Democrats will squander this great opportunity to pass meaningful law while they control both houses and the presidency. Instead, they will spend the first critical months with impeachment proceedings only to watch their efforts unravel in the Senate. And if they are actually successful in the Senate and Trump is told he can never again hold public office, the only one helped by that will be the Republicans.

Maybe the Trumpers are recruiting more folk?

Trump Supporters Invite BlackLivesMatter Protesters on Stage at MOAR Rally (6m:44s youtube)

Yeah. Earlier they could talk to each other. For a while

And if they are actually successful in the Senate and Trump is told he can never again hold public office, the only one helped by that will be the Republicans. — Hanover

Reminds me of Yugoslav politicians before the civil war.

s Trump evil? Yes.

Does that automatically mean he's stupid? No. — Hippyhead

He’s not stupid. In fact, he’s got very strong con-man instincts, since that’s been his entire life. He’s managed limited success in business because of his created persona and brand creation, thanks largely to manipulating the media.

He brought that to politics, and it proved a good match. Name recognition was important, as was general anger with DC. Add social media to the mix, and it’s little surprise he’s taken over the party.

Yes that is my view but I think it's sufficient to just say what other people think in a manner that resonates with them - that does not so much require principles as being able to regurgitate what you hear on the television. Most of our opinions are derived from our surroundings, usually not based on principles or thought of in depth. Trump is a master at how he delivers that - not just anybody can do that. I just can't see any other quality that I'd describe as intelligence, emotional or otherwise.

I don’t believe Antifa had anything to do with the capitol riots. — NOS4A2

That wasn't my point. You posted conspiracy theories about Antifa disguised as MAGA loons perpetrating that attempted coup. You do subscribe to conspiracy theories, even if you have the ability to accept when you're wrong about them later.

Yes that is my view but I think it's sufficient to just say what other people think in a manner that resonates with them - that does not so much require principles as being able to regurgitate what you hear on the television. — Benkei

I agree, but that's not what Trump did.

For fucks sake....

Oh yes, when nobody publicly says that they are going to attempt an insurrection tomorrow, it obviously wasn't an insurrection! Rhe storming of the Capitol Hill was a logical and obvious consequence to all the bullshit perpetrated earlier by Trump & the gang. It's no surprise that people who believe in Q-Anon bullshit do take these things seriously... when it's the biggest scam in history.

For example, the ex-Tweeter in Chief did tweet things like this one from last year December 26th:

I’m not saying that nobody planned an insurrection, I’m saying that Trump didn’t plan or incite one. I would even say there were elements that had insurrection in mind, and they should be punished accordingly. I get why you’d try to misrepresent my point but I’m not going to fall for it myself. The president calling for a protest is one thing, but calling for or inciting an insurrection is quite another, especially in the land of the 1st amendment. Blaming him for the actions of others will require more evidence.

Trump has been unequivocal about riots and law and order, before and after the riot at Capitol Hill. Trump was often criticized for being too hard on protesters, for instance on those who for days laid siege to the Whitehouse in the summer. (Trump’s opponents went so far as to pretend he did it for a photo op, even though the DOJ’s plan to push back protesters occurred long before any discussion of Trump leaving the Whitehouse).

So if your logical conclusion to Trump’s claims is violent insurrection, then you’re thinking like the very same nutters who sought insurrection at the Capitol Hill.

Trump about to speak after days of silence:

The big problem is there is no evidence of any plan for violent insurrection. — NOS4A2

Holy shit, we agree on something!!

If Trump had intended a violent coup at the Capitol we would know for sure because he would have spent days saying: "It's a terrible thing, a terrible thing. The Armageddon people have voted for me, they love me, you know that? They really do. It's a beautiful thing, really. But there are people out there, I don't want to say who they are but I know who they are, we all know them, and I've seen the proof, democrat congressmen, a lot of our guys too, they're involved in this, I don't know how they got them, they got Mike Pence too, he's a good guy but he's weak, he's not a winner. They're using the vote count, which should never have happened, especially in Georgia, and Wisconsin, and Arizona, it's a terrible thing they did there, but they're using this count, this false count, mostly dead people and democrat voters which isn't fair but hey, and because of that they're going to steal the election from the Amoonian people, and the only thing I hope is that the people take matters into their own hands and, I don't know, I don't want to say lynch Congress, although I'd like nothing more than to see Nancy Pelosi hanging from a lamppost because she's a pig, a really bad person, you think I'm joking, but unless the people take control of Congress, and if that means by violent means then I'm not saying we shouldn't do that, I don't think, you know, well, it's going to be a terrible shame, a real shame."

That's how Donald Trump disguises his meaning: by trying, and failing, to put it into English.

What the media never showed was Trump’s explicit desire to do it legally and according to the constitution, which is his right, and which many have done before him. Perhaps if they did, there would be no such violence. — NOS4A2

Trump may be unique among American presidents in his flagrant propaganda based on lies, such as 'the election was stolen and everyone knows it'. He repeated the lie relentlessly for months until his weak minded followers believed it with a passion. All politicians use propaganda of course, but it takes a special kind of sociopath to so readily use propaganda techniques like the so called big lie. Having a strong penchant for propaganda yourself, even you won't stoop that low, and also seem to possess the moral conscious to brand yourself an evil bloodsucking parasite to help alleviate any cognitive dissonance caused by having a conscious.

As predicted, the Democrats will squander this great opportunity to pass meaningful law while they control both houses and the presidency. Instead, they will spend the first critical months with impeachment proceedings only to watch their efforts unravel in the Senate. And if they are actually successful in the Senate and Trump is told he can never again hold public office, the only one helped by that will be the Republicans. — Hanover

:up:

I’m not saying that nobody planned an insurrection, I’m saying that Trump didn’t plan or incite one. — NOS4A2

Fine NOS. Even more reason to get him out. Inciting by accident / cluelessness is even worse.

I guess here the issue are things like 1) what was Trump's reaction to the storming of Capitol Hill and 2) Why did the administration did not respond even if the national guard was ready to intervene. Yet it's obvious. A President doesn't use that language of walking to the Capital and then respond by sending the National Guard in against his supporters, who he so dearly loves. This is quite straightforward in the end.

And likely you'll see it tomorrow how Trump behaves in Texas. Knowing Trump it will be hard for him to stick to the prepared teleprompter script. Just remember Trump's mixed responses after Charlottesville. Yeah, after an outcry he talked a bit from the teleprompter for a moment before going to back to his "blame all sides" rhetoric.

Then I'm still at a loss what you think he did.

And likely you'll see it tomorrow how Trump behaves in Texas. — ssu

Alamo, Texas.

McConnell might be on board with impeachment

Well that's surprising.

Even Fox News is reporting it, adding:

President Trump acknowledged that he bears some blame for the Capitol riot last week during a conversation with House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, a source familiar told Fox News.

Two sources say McCarthy, R-Calif., relayed the president’s sentiment on a call Monday with the House GOP Conference.

Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY), the third-ranking House Republican, said Tuesday that she would vote to impeach President Donald Trump for inciting the violent riot at the U.S. Capitol last week.

“What we know now is enough. The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing,” Cheney said in a statement. “There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution. I will vote to impeach the President.”

Daily Beast.

As predicted, the Democrats will squander this great opportunity to pass meaningful law while they control both houses and the presidency. — Hanover

According to Jim Clyburn, as there is no convention governing when an impeachment which has been passed is sent to the Senate for trial, it might be delayed for about 100 days, or about the first three months of the Biden presidency.

And I still hope when it comes to the Senate trial, the GOP will sieze the possibility of getting itself out from under the thumb of the Orange Emperor for good. Yes, 'the base' will squeal dreadfully, there will be a short-term political hit, and some of the MAGA militia might even take up arms, but it will mean taking Trump out of the political equation for good. At the end of the day, who owes loyalty to Trump, considering how he treats those who have been deferential to him?

From the Fox News story linked above:

Another source told Fox News that McConnell told associates that impeachment will help rid the Republican Party of Trump and his movement.

Trump as a self-cooking goose. Allow 100 days to marinate.