Suicide by Mod

DingoJones

The most recent poster banned for behaviour they knew would get them banned marks a little trend Ive noticed on this forum. Im interested in what exactly is going on with that, as ive not noticed it on other forums (the trend).
New posters and older posters alike get fed up and decide to foolishly dare the mods to enforce the guidelines.
What are people thoughts on why they do that? They could just leave, but some anger or frustration compelled them to...I dont know, some sort of strange suicide by mod.
There seems to be something more going on than tension with the mods or opposing viewpoints. Something builds up until they sorta snap, is it the “left wing” bias discussed in that other threads, some sort of problem they have with the forum culture?
I hesitate to suggest its a general trait of philosophical or political forums, as ive frequented many and not noticed a similar trend.
So a sign of the times then? Are we just so divided that certain people crack from the stress of knowing people out there disagree with them so so much?
Is it the nature of discourse, that some people just arent equipped for?
I just cant decide.

As a broader consideration, this seems to be under the purview of tribalism which is a well established human trait/flaw. If this is a sign of the times, then are we experiencing a flare up of tribalism, a tribalism growth spurt of some kind? (Or as a pleasant surprise, its death throes?)

fishfry

What did I miss? Who got banned?

khaled

↪DingoJones

Are we just so divided that certain people crack from the stress of knowing people out there disagree with them so so much? — DingoJones

More specifically, I think there is a distinction to be made between wanting people to agree with you and needing people to agree with you. Everyone has the former. Everyone likes when people agree with them. However some go an extra step and decide that there is something to lose when people disagree. In other words, become entitled to others on the forum reacting to them in a specific way. Become reliant on it like food and water. It’s those people that commit suicide by mod. Their expectations get shattered and so they lash out.

It’s a similar trend to the age old phenomenon of “rage quitting” be it in a video game or a real game. When something doesn’t go your way and you throw a temper tantrum.

I say don’t become reliant on others reacting to you in any specific way whatsoever.

praxis

↪DingoJones

Who taught you that tribalism is a human flaw?

Monitor

I think there is a distinction to be made between wanting people to agree with you and needing people to agree with you. Everyone has the former. Everyone likes when people agree with them. However some go an extra step and decide that there is something to lose when people disagree. In other words, become entitled to others on the forum reacting to them in a specific way. Become reliant on it like food and water. — khaled

Well said. I am so often struck by the ratio of philosophical and psychological in posts.

Pinprick

↪DingoJones

I wouldn’t be surprised if it had something to do with playing the victim. “They’re trying to silence me!” Being a victim seems to be social currency nowadays. Also, if they’re banned they can believe that had they had the opportunity to respond to others posts they could have “won” the argument. It gives them a sort of “plausible deniability.”

Anyway, there is one member here who was banned for doing something that very well seemed similar, but was allowed to return to the forum (which I completely feel was the right decision). If suicide by mod was in fact his intent, maybe he could provide some insight. I’m sure you’re aware of who I’m referring to, but maybe that’s a conversation that is better suited for PM, as he may not appreciate being called out publicly and asked to explain his personal actions.

Wayfarer

Most of the people who do that have zero interest in or knowledge of philosophy per se, this forum is just a place where they can get free interaction. Life's too short to bother with such trivia.

Echarmion

What are people thoughts on why they do that? — DingoJones

The people that I am aware of all had some peculiarity in their style or preoccupation that was evident long before the "suicide by mod". They all seemed to have a very rigid position with respect to some topic, or a style that would lead to never ending discussion.

My guess would be that getting banned was the only way they could claim they upheld their position "to the end", without giving ground. After all, when you're banned, you can't reply, even if you want to.

DingoJones

More specifically, I think there is a distinction to be made between wanting people to agree with you and needing people to agree with you. Everyone has the former. Everyone likes when people agree with them. However some go an extra step and decide that there is something to lose when people disagree. In other words, become entitled to others on the forum reacting to them in a specific way. Become reliant on it like food and water. It’s those people that commit suicide by mod. Their expectations get shattered and so they lash out. — khaled

Ok, but why haven’t I seen this on other similar forums? Is there something about this forum that attracts these sorts of people?

It’s a similar trend to the age old phenomenon of “rage quitting” be it in a video game or a real game. When something doesn’t go your way and you throw a temper tantrum. — khaled

We have a fair share of such tantrums, its the internet after all. This seems like something different, like these people are going through the motions of the same psychological effect.

DingoJones

I wouldn’t be surprised if it had something to do with playing the victim. “They’re trying to silence me!” Being a victim seems to be social currency nowadays. Also, if they’re banned they can believe that had they had the opportunity to respond to others posts they could have “won” the argument. It gives them a sort of “plausible deniability.” — Pinprick

Well again this is standard fare for the internet. I agree that misbehaviour can often be attributed to the psychology you mentioned but this is different. They dont want to quit, they dont want to soapbox, they dint want to rant or get in the last word...they wanna be banned. Its so strange to me.

Anyway, there is one member here who was banned for doing something that very well seemed similar, but was allowed to return to the forum (which I completely feel was the right decision). If suicide by mod was in fact his intent, maybe he could provide some insight. I’m sure you’re aware of who I’m referring to, but maybe that’s a conversation that is better suited for PM, as he may not appreciate being called out publicly and asked to explain his personal actions. — Pinprick

That would be enlightening.

DingoJones

The people that I am aware of all had some peculiarity in their style or preoccupation that was evident long before the "suicide by mod". They all seemed to have a very rigid position with respect to some topic, or a style that would lead to never ending discussion. — Echarmion

Hmm. That makes sense. So maybe its simply a matter of the most rigid reed snapping the loudest. Likewise with the never ending discussion method. Thats true they do all seem to have one or both of those traits.

My guess would be that getting banned was the only way they could claim they upheld their position "to the end", without giving ground. After all, when you're banned, you can't reply, even if you want to. — Echarmion

A matter of principal? Not so sure about that, but maybe.

khaled

↪DingoJones

Ok, but why haven’t I seen this on other similar forums? Is there something about this forum that attracts these sorts of people? — DingoJones

I think it's that this forum is a bit more "personal" than most. In most forums you mainly see the post, don't see the same people too often, no way to customize a profile, etc. So people end up caring what others think of them because they talk to the same people. Maybe idk.

This seems like something different, like these people are going through the motions of the same psychological effect. — DingoJones

I think it's the same thing. If you've ever played a MOBA this would be "inting". Anyways I don't have a degree or anything and I don't know what I'm talking about. Just guesses.

DingoJones

↪khaled

Same here. Its strange and zi have a curiosity the strange.

Echarmion

↪DingoJones

One reason it's more frequent - or seems that way - might be that if you get banned here, you get your very own gravestone in the form of a post in the "bannings" treat. Often even get eulogies from other posters. It's a lot more visible than just disappearing quietly into the night.

Other forums don't usually even allow discussion of such decisions, let alone invite it.

DingoJones

↪Echarmion

Good point.

Benkei

Anyway, there is one member here who was banned for doing something that very well seemed similar, but was allowed to return to the forum (which I completely feel was the right decision). If suicide by mod was in fact his intent, maybe he could provide some insight. I’m sure you’re aware of who I’m referring to, but maybe that’s a conversation that is better suited for PM, as he may not appreciate being called out publicly and asked to explain his personal actions. — Pinprick

It wasn't suicide by mod but a stupid mistake (you can read up in the Bannings thread). It was a combination of an apology, the assurances after the ban it wouldn't happen again and his otherwise good posting history that led to an unban. Suicidees by mod tend to not want to get back to the forum. ;-)

Benkei

↪DingoJones

↪Echarmion

We like transparancy and are open to criticism. Or at least we like to pretend we are with regard to the latter.

Judaka

↪DingoJones

I think Brett wanted to be a martyr. Leaving the forum may have felt like a defeat while being banned felt like a victory. He talked of "being silenced", he didn't get banned for the reasons he wanted to and so perhaps that's why he wanted to force their hand? It all seems to be based on stuff which happened in the last week or so.

Hanover

I think sometimes it's like rage quitting a video game when you keep getting flustered. You rip off your earphones and throw the controller to the ground and you're like "fuck, I hope I didn't break anything."

Once I couldn't get my weed whacker to start and I threw my shoulder out yanking on the rope. It pissed me off so I threw it into the creek. As I watched it spinning through the air, sailing over the fence, I thought to myself, there must have been a better way to deal with it.

Little moments in time when we become unhinged only to regret it microseconds later.

Kenosha Kid

Once I couldn't get my weed whacker to start and I threw my shoulder out yanking on the rope. It pissed me off so I threw it into the creek. As I watched it spinning through the air, sailing over the fence, I thought to myself, there must have been a better way to deal with it. — Hanover

I love this image :rofl:

Benkei

↪Hanover

I've never rage quitted in my life. It's tough being me and not able to relate to other people.

ssu

If this is a sign of the times, then are we experiencing a flare up of tribalism, a tribalism growth spurt of some kind? — DingoJones

Unfortunately it is, it is a sign of the times, which indeed I find very worrisome. The US looks bad now, and I don't want similar things happening here.

I remember the old PF. When Dubya Bush invaded Iraq and the WoT was in full swing, it wasn't at all so hateful, even if it was a bit tense as people came on the Forum to defend the US decision while others naturally were against it. But that was 17 years ago on another site. Then there are a lot of the same people here. Yet it didn't go on the level of personal insults as now. Or if it did, snap, they were out of the forum.

Now it's acceptable at least for some to use language, even mods, to use language that would have gotten them off the old site. Just stick to the rules and them being the same for everybody. Some could point fingers, but I think that it indeed is about the times we live in.

PF is in my view a "canary in the coal mine". If here different ideas aren't tolerated, then where then?

avalon

↪DingoJones

It has little to do with forums per se and more to do with any social group interaction. There are many among us that cannot handle being told we're wrong and do not enjoy being challenged on beliefs we hold. For those individuals, making a "statement" and "rage quitting" (as another poster put it), is the perfect way to make a splash and feeling self righteous before making an exit.

Hanover

I've never rage quitted in my life. It's tough being me and not able to relate to other people. — Benkei

I make mistakes only to make myself more likable. it's a godlike quality where what apparent evil I might do is for the better and what errors I make are actually for the best. That's how great I am.

DingoJones

Unfortunately it is, it is a sign of the times, which indeed I find very worrisome. The US looks bad now, and I don't want similar things happening here.

I remember the old PF. When Dubya Bush invaded Iraq and the WoT was in full swing, it wasn't at all so hateful, even if it was a bit tense as people came on the Forum to defend the US decision while others naturally were against it. But that was 17 years ago on another site. Then there are a lot of the same people here. Yet it didn't go on the level of personal insults as now. Or if it did, snap, they w — ssu

Its been ramping up for years, decades. I remember how people hated Bush jr, how he became a joke. Remember the show That’s My Bush (i think that was the name)? It was a sitcom about how stupid george bush was. That stood out. A sitcom making fun of the sitting president. Then came Obama. The hatred was so toxic and unhinged, and not just the racists. Average people suddenly became these rabid, decisional attack dogs. Obama was Hitler, he was the anti-christ. Didnt think it would get much worse than that but then of course Trump, wanders in off the tv set and taps into all that venom and darkness to get elected and now discourse is dead, everyones lost their minds. All it took was social media to make it easier for stupidity and division to widen and spread. Now, difference of opinion is a difference of good and evil in the hearts and minds of most people.

Now it's acceptable at least for some to use language, even mods, to use language that would have gotten them off the old site. Just stick to the rules and them being the same for everybody. Some could point fingers, but I think that it indeed is about the times we live in. — ssu

I cant say im much bothered by language. Just words to me, same as others. If “go fuck yourself” conveys the emotion or expression your going for then go ahead.

PF is in my view a "canary in the coal mine". If here different ideas aren't tolerated, then where then? — ssu

Indeed. The battleground of ideas has been demolished and reseeded to grow a sturdy crop of dogma and toxic ideology.

ssu

Its been ramping up for years, decades. — DingoJones

This is so true. It started way before Trump. Trump has been just the pinnacle of where it all came to as not only this media personality turned politician is a vitriolic populist (and extremely good at it), yet he simply wasn't fit to be the US President. But still, if it would have been Hillary, the toxicity would be similar. This isn't only about one person.

Indeed. The battleground of ideas has been demolished and reseeded to grow a sturdy crop of dogma and toxic ideology. — DingoJones

And as long as you can debate others who have totally different ideas is a positive sign.

When you can't there isn't much else than either separation or violence.

Monitor

I make mistakes only to make myself more likable. it's a godlike quality where what apparent evil I might do is for the better and what errors I make are actually for the best. That's how great I am. — Hanover

Did you teach that to Counterpunch?

Philosophim

Interesting point. So I taught high school for a few years and would run across students with behavior issues. What shocked me at first is after they were warned, they would misbehave MORE. After a while, I realized it was a dominance thing. They just didn't like being told what to do, or how to behave.

That's why the ban hammer is needed. Its why you have punishments for students that eventually result in expulsion. Because there are some people who will fight until you utterly defeat them. To normal people, its a weird hill to stand on. But for them? It seems to be the only way they know how to function.

Baden

If here different ideas aren't tolerated, then where then? — ssu

Some ideas shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism is one. Tolerating it leads to, well, you've seen what just happened.

Pfhorrest

Some ideas shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism is one. Tolerating it leads to, well, you've seen what just happened. — Baden

I’d say even that should be “tolerated” to the extent that that means taking it as an idea about which we can discuss the pros and cons. It’s just one with very obvious cons — like, for example, what just happened.

People actually practicing fascism, inasmuch as that’s taken to mean a species of intolerance itself, of course cannot be tolerated, per the paradox of tolerance.

DingoJones

Some ideas shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism is one. Tolerating it leads to, well, you've seen what just happened. — Baden

Depends on what you mean by tolerate. The best remedy for bad ideas like fascism is discussion, to show where these ideas fail and where they lead. So I think being tolerant of the idea in the arena of discourse is tolerable, even preferable. Outside that arena, say in the political arena, fascism just cannot be tolerated in a civil society. We’ve tried it, seen it, we dont like it so if someone wants to use it in an arena like that then its going to have to win in the battleground of ideas first.

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