Just like every of our physics theories, my opinion lacks the complete information and thus may be inaccurate. I don't support mind-body dualism presently, which will become evident as you read the expose. I am not denying that the ego is real, but I can't find enough evidence for its transcendence. Therefore, I don't believe in transcendent ethical arguments for the answer to your question. I am in support of the idea of consciousness in the flesh.So I ask you.....what do you think? Is there an actual purpose or point to life or living? — Mtl4life098
Something to consider: there is more to life than meets the eye. At the turn of the 20th century (1900-ish) an experiment was conducted to weigh people at their exact moment of death, in order to determine if there was a soul — Book273
Apparently, in the experiment 6 people have been weighted in total, with the measurements of 3 being discarded, the remaining three varying. One lost weight, one lost weight and regained it, one lost weight in multiple stages. Meaning, only one patient exhibited the precise result. Even if I put too much trust in the description of the wikipedia source, sweating, gas release and other factors have to be accounted for. I am not saying that there is certainly no soul, but that experiment was butchered. Furthermore, some beliefs don't afford the soul material expression. I am open minded to any form of existence of the soul if it is proven, but the result would be also irreconcilable if the weight was attributed to an insubstantial part of the person.Each person weighed had the same discrepancy. — Book273
How would they have been accounted for, given it would be difficult to do even today?However, sweat, gas, etc had been accounted for. — Book273
Energy is a form of matter, because you can create a particle with rest mass from the collision of high energy photons.Additionally, if the soul exists, then it is energy of some sort, and would there for have mass, recognizable as weight, which would, lacking a physical, recognized substance, qualify as insubstantial. — Book273
No. It would be reconcilable with me if it had completely materially transparent or unknown material nature.Would that in effect make the concept of the soul irreconcilable to you? Because it has a measurable weight? — Book273
How would they have been accounted for, given it would be difficult to do even today? — simeonz
The wikipedia article includes a critical remark which was made by physician named Augustus Clarke, one of the MacDougall's contemporaries, according to whom right before dying the body releases heat, which affects the liquids in the body, turning sweat into gas and I assume, affecting the pressure of the internal gasses as well. If the pressure or state of the body's own liquids changes right before the person dies, when they are released/evaporate, the buoyant force exerted on those liquids would be different or otherwise, I speculate that the body's intestines and thus the exterior surface would partially inflate right after death, resulting in greater buoyant force on the corpse. According to Clarke, this could account for the 21 grams, although I understand that we are talking about a lot of weight. It seems to me that if Clarke is right about the heat release anyway, to be fully accurate, the experiment would have to place the subject in a hermetically sealed hard surface container that is weighted with compensation for the barometric pressure.Not at all difficult to do today, were the experiment to get past the ethics board. I believe what was done back then was the patient was placed on to, essentially, a large tray and weighed. — Book273
There are multiple issues. First, as society, we insist that even the dying receive palliative care, or at least sedation. In principle, even if you have the consent of people that know that they are going to be on life support eventually, they will also have to sign an order to "not resuscitate" and "not intubate". With dying patients that have vital functions, you will be suspected in trying to arrange the time of death of the patients.I would be willing to do this experiment. Providing the subjects gave informed consent prior. Methinks the ethics board would never approve of it. Neither would the church if they had any say in the matter. — Book273
Clarke only stated that the sweat would have evaporated. I tried unsuccessfully to indicate by stating that "I assume" that it was my speculation that the pressure of the gasses, i.e. their temperature before they exit the colon, would be raised. I wanted to link this to the overall picture. Meaning, the effective weight of the expelled gasses in the presence of the atmospheric buoyant force might change if they get warmer right after death.The changes of pressure would not affect overall weight of the body, only gas distribution. Clarke should have known that. — Book273
Again, this was my clumsy addendum. I meant that if some gasses were blocked in the colon, it would inflate it and push out the tummy of the person to some extent. In retrospect, the change in volume of the human corpse would probably be very small to warrant significant change in buoyancy.Also, Clarke's theory of a body's exterior surface partially inflating right after death is erroneous. A body deflates slightly as gases and liquids are expelled due to atmospheric pressure being allowed to compress the tissues as internal pressures from being alive are no longer a factor. — Book273
First, I doubt that ICU beds are designed to capture gasses and I doubt that the hospital would design their beds in any way that is not primarily interested in the health care of the individual. If they are on life support, I can see better chances of this happening. The measurements would have to deal with barometric pressure if they are not performed simultaneously and presume to be completely accurate.ICU beds are now quite capable of weighing patients accurately, there is no need to arrange anything. One could program the cardiac monitor to relay a "weigh patient" signal at 30 seconds after asystole begins. There would be no need for outside intervention. Additionally, anyone participating in such a study would be palliative, and therefore, resuscitation and intubation would not apply anyway. — Book273
I realized what you mean by this - that the measurements will be done only deferentially. The counterforce from the atmosphere is irrelevant, because it will be approximately the same before and after death. I concede on that point. But again, if sweat evaporation and other gasses need to be captured, with absolutely the same buoyant force, you will need a hard walls hermetic container. I am not saying it has to be under vacuum inside, just sealed. You can't move terminally ill patients, so you need someone on life support, and his signed agreement.Barometric pressure should not be an issue if the weights were done within minutes of each other. — Book273
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