Perhaps there are robots walking around now and we don't even know it. Also, Guirjieff stressed that many human beings live in a robotic state of consciousness and that we need to wake up.

@elucid

You may already know this, but the "human robots" you're referring to are commonly known (by arbitrary thought-experiment convention) as "philosophical zombies." :)

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/

I've always thought the concept missed the mark a little, though it's fun to think about. The fundamental question is whether such a being could exist, as opposed to what it would mean-- socially, etc-- for such beings to live among us. Personally, I don't think p-zombies are possible. Consciousness isn't a special substance separate from the human body. It is part and parcel of our wiring.

Not sure if you can find it online, but there's a decent story called "Sibling Rivalry" by Michael Byers that is basically a fun-to-read and drawn-out version of the p-zombie thought experiment. One sibling is a "synthetic" human, and the other isn't.

I think if you get the body exactly right you will inadvertently get consciousness. It’s not like consciousness is some magic sauce you add at the end that you can do without. It’s deeply intertwined with the body. In other words: p-zombies are conceivable (not logically contradictory) but not possible.

Drunk people lose consciousness all the time, but their body remains active and operates by itself. Another great example of the body being active and operating by itself without consciousness is sleep walking.

but you cannot choose to remain conscious no matter how drunk you get. Which shows that they are interconnected. You also cannot choose to stop being conscious at any time you wish.

So as I said: if you get the body right consciousness follows.

Human robots present the same problems as human zombies, which is that they lack a conscious and are therefore capable of anything, and also that they're easily controlled others.

First off, let me start by defining a term that I will be using. By "human" robots, I mean human bodies that are flesh and bones and exactly the same as us body wise, but devoid of any consciousness whatsoever.

What do you guys think about "human" robots going around being amongst us, doing things for us that are hard for us "real" humans to accomplish, such as learning about nature and reality and inventions? — elucid

why would they be better at anything, if they are the same as us?

@god must be an atheist, they wouldn't be exactly the same, they would be unconscious beings.

I think if you get the body exactly right you will inadvertently get consciousness. It’s not like consciousness is some magic sauce you add at the end that you can do without. It’s deeply intertwined with the body. In other words: p-zombies are conceivable (not logically contradictory) but not possible. — khaled

Counter question: How do you know that your computer/BASIC program is not aware when it says "I am aware that you have now pressed so-and-so key!"?

How do you know that your computer/BASIC program is not aware when it says "I am aware that you have now pressed so-and-so key!"? — SolarWind

I don’t

That is correct. The only certain thing is that we ourselves are conscious (I feel, therefore I am), but this cannot be proved to anyone else.

In the same way, we do not know whether a stone, a plant, an animal or a fellow human being is conscious. There are neither sufficient nor necessary criteria for consciousness. All we do is to use the similarity principle.

Drunk people lose consciousness all the time, but their body remains active and operates by itself. Another great example of the body being active and operating by itself without consciousness is sleep walking. — elucid

This I find interesting. It's as if people under the influence of a drug/alcohol or are sleep walking are real instances of p-zombies (the human "robots" you described in your OP). After all, their consciousness is reduced and some might even go so far as to suggest that it's absent even while their bodies go on doing thing - laughing, sipping more spirit, dancing, and, of course walking.

However, a couple of things that need to be mentioned:

1. Consciousness comes in two flavors: one is awareness of one's environment and two is self-awareness. In the case of being under the influence of alcohol/drugs, self-awareness is affected but not the other kind of awareness (of the environment). So, strictly speaking, people who've had too much to drink or are drugged aren't unconscious; it's just that a certain component of consciousness (self-awareness) is missing. I suppose we could say that people in such states will fail the mirror test but will cry out in pain if punched in the face.

2. On the matter of sleep walking, from the little that I know of somnambulism, the brain is inactive or if active only at the level of someone who's sleeping normally. In other words, consciousness is absent in sleep walkers. However, there is a difference between a sleep walker and a human robot as you've defined it and it can be discerned from the complexity of behavior; it goes without saying that sleep walkers' act in ways that appear strange, zombie-like and there are other typical symptoms that help diagnose this condition. What this means is that the absence of consciousness or semi-consciousness in those who experience somnambulism is easily noticeable.

I don't think your concept of human robots is possible or realistic in this world. All living beings have consciousness. Animals have consciousness. Therefore humans have consciousness. I don't understand what you mean by devoid of consciousness. I have consciousness, or else I wouldn't have thought to come here and find this and think of a reply. Any human being can do that if they wanted to. Unless they can't read yet or have a disability that prevents them from being able to, but not knowing how to read or having a disability doesn't take away the fact that the human is conscious.

The argument for being drunk is a curveball but unconsciousness doesn't make one a robot. Just as everyone has consciousness, everyone has unconsciousness. The unconscious mind is full of all the information that a person is not conscious of, for example, their drunken stupor or sleepwalking. Just because they don't know they're sleepwalking doesn't mean they're a robot. There's no rational or logical programming to make someone sleepwalk. It's just a symptom of a mental disorder. Plenty of people have mental disorders that lead to all kinds of symptomatic behavior but they're not robots. They're alive and they have individuality.

Working and learning and studying does not make one a robot. I do those things. I do repetitive tasks in a factory with conveyor belts, doing the same thing all day without getting tired or breaking a sweat or getting bored. Still, that does not make me a robot. It means I have very high amounts of stamina, patience, strength, fortitude, and motivation. I can focus on a task and do it for 10 hours because I enjoy doing it. I'm still a consciousness, a human being, not some artificial intelligence. I also spend hours reading, learning, watching philosophy lectures, meditating, and self reflecting. That doesn't make me any less human.

So I would like more elaboration on why you believe humans who do hard things and learn about nature, reality and inventions are robots without consciousness. These ideas don't make sense to me without more context and clarification. Learning and working are things every animal and human does. All of those things are conscious. If I know I am conscious and everyone on this forum including you are conscious, what makes a person devoid of consciousness? What do you constitute as a "real" human? Because I think of the 7 billion plus humans on earth, all of them are equally as real as you and me. So what constitutes a "fake" human? Why does working and learning detract realness?

What do you guys think about "human" robots going around being amongst us, doing things for us that are hard for us "real" humans to accomplish, such as learning about nature and reality and inventions? — elucid

This is a traditional analytic philosophy fantasy that captures the fear of not being able to know what is going on with the Other (another person--the problem of other minds it is usually called). It is the outcome of radical skepticism. Wittgenstein has a whole process of showing that knowledge in the traditional sense (certainty, predictive, determinative, universal) comes to an end in the case of the Other. We do not know that someone is in pain in this sense, we either acknowledge they are in pain ("I know, sweetie, you're in pain") or reject it--the claim that their pain makes on us and our reaction to it. We treat someone as a robot. On page 152 (PI 50th Aniv. ed.) Witt describes that we do not talk of believing that someone is not an automaton. "I am not of the opinion that he has a soul. * * * My attitude towards him is an attitude towards a soul." (emphasis in original) "Consciousness" I imagine is lumped into the same class, as would be zombie, monster, ghost...