How does the brain define so well without defining ? — Benj96
Regardless of how well I describe the taste of something, it’s not the same as actually eating and experiencing it. — Present awareness
How would that even happen if the person didn't make an association between the scribble or sound and what it points to prior to seeing and hearing those words?What would you make of synethesia which is word based... for example you always see the word green as The colour green or you always smell petrol when you read the word petrol. — Benj96
So? Who is speaking to whom about what is a type of context in which we use scribbles and sounds. "I" is still pointing to something.Also the word “I” can only ever be referential to the thing saying it. Only “I”s say “I” — Benj96
For language to be useful words must have a definition, sentiment or meaning held in them that is mutually understood by the collective. — Benj96
How does the brain define so well without defining ? — Benj96
This could possibly determine if language spontaneously occurs (is hardwired into our makeup) or is a cultural/ social adaptation of lower forms of communication. — Benj96
think speech is a product of much evolution of more basic forms of control of the environment — Benj96
I don't think that language is essential aspect of intelligence, but it is believed that evolution of human beings in terms of their communication and mental apparatus transpired at about the same time. Might have been in a causal manner, with communication coming first, although evolutionary processes are staged and it makes little difference. You are probably right that we have a lot hardwired into us that predisposes us to receptiveness of elaborate communication patterns, although genetics are likely no more than potential that activates by the environment, including social environment.If you ask me language isn’t just separate from the biological mechanics of the body. — Benj96
ts name is useful. I can ask Wife where we should plant out the tree poppy, and she knows what I'm on about. I can order another one from the supplier by asking by name. But I could not offer a definition that would sort tree poppies out from other poppies or shrubs. — Banno
Actually upon further consideration I’m not even sure if a word has to be mutually agreed upon at all in order to have useful meaning. You may call it a tree poppy and your wife might say what? Do you mean the Romneya coulteri And the supplier again may have another name “X” for it and you may all bicker about what it actually is but in the end just decide to plant it. — Benj96
How/why is a name useful? Useful for what? What are scribbles and sounds from your mouth useful for? To use something means that you have a goal. What is the goal in the mind when using names?Its name is useful. — Banno
How did you learn to use words? For instance, how did you learn to use the scribble/sound, "shrub" or "tree"?, if not by your teacher pointing to these things, or pictures of these things and then showing/saying the scribblee/sound that points to it? Using words isn't much different than using your pointer finger. Saying, "It is raining." is redundant when I'm looking out the window and I see it raining.This is one of the odd things pointed out by Old Wittgenstein. It seems that words can be quite useful without previously agreed on definitions.
It's the use that is important. — Banno
Why would you use a word for your own personal use? If you see that it is raining outside, do you also need to tell yourself that it is raining outside? Words are only useful to tell others who don't see that it is raining outside, that it is raining outside.Actually upon further consideration I’m not even sure if a word has to be mutually agreed upon at all in order to have useful meaning. — Benj96
Do they?
I've a tree poppy in a pot outside. It's about 60cm high, so it's not a tree, yet. It will apparently grow to a height of a couple of metres. Is it a tree or a shrub? Does that make its name wrong?
Its name is useful. I can ask Wife where we should plant out the tree poppy, and she knows what I'm on about. I can order another one from the supplier by asking by name. But I could not offer a definition that would sort tree poppies out from other poppies or shrubs.
The supplier and my wife might have talked about Romneya coulteri, a name which perhaps has a suitable definition in some archaic botanical source. But we don't.
Indeed, if you look around you might notice that folk get by for the most part without "a definition, sentiment or meaning held in them that is mutually understood by the collective".
This is one of the odd things pointed out by Old Wittgenstein. It seems that words can be quite useful without previously agreed on definitions.
It's the use that is important — Banno
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