Michael was removed — Benkei

You banned @Michael??? Infighting in putin's cortege?

No and don't know.

Fixed

Georgia DA opens criminal probe of Trump call urging secretary of state to find votes

Right, keep repeating it it will come true. Democrats are going to invade their own country.

Michelle Carter exercised her free speech by encouraging her boyfriend to kill himself. She didn't kill him, so why should SHE have been punished when she was just exercising her free speech?

Exactly.

Wrong. In court, Carter's defense consisted of claims that she was exercising her free speech. The Massachusets Supreme Court ruled her speech was not protected because it was, "integral to a course of criminal conduct."

The same applies to Trump's incitement. There are limits to the exercise of free speech.

↪Relativist

Michelle Carter exercised her free speech by encouraging her boyfriend to kill himself. She didn't kill him, so why should SHE have been punished when she was just exercising her free speech?

Exactly. — NOS4A2

Just what is it, exactly, that you two think free speech is? It seems pretty clear that you a) don't know - in fact have no idea - and b) like most stupid ignorant nasty vicious people think that you do know and claim what you think you know is correct. Oh, the shameless immodesty - the plain wrongness! And of course neither of you will give answer, because trolls like you don't answer.

If one saw a pig in a parlor, it's possible, the pig being quiet, one may not know what the problem was. But you two, nos4 especially, is a walking talking lesson on just what is wrong with a pig in the parlor, teaching the lesson better than any pig could.

Maybe you should pay a bit more attention to who says what.

No doubt, absolutely. What would you refer me to?

The last post by Relativist in relation to the post I reacted to.

@Relativist

Wrong. In court, Carter's defense consisted of claims that she was exercising her free speech. The Massachusets Supreme Court ruled her speech was not protected because it was, "integral to a course of criminal conduct."

The same applies to Trump's incitement. There are limits to the exercise of free speech. — Relativist

Just what we need: more authoritarian pantywaists in power chilling free speech. This is a show trial in a kangaroo court
— NOS4A2
Michelle Carter exercised her free speech by encouraging her boyfriend to kill himself. She didn't kill him, so why should SHE have been punished when she was just exercising her free speech? — Relativist

Two posts by Relativist. I saw only one and supposed him to be agreeing with nos4. My bad. I apologize to Relativist.

It's all good.

TBH, I was surprised at NOS4A2's response. I stupidly assumed everyone would agree that girl deserved to go to prison.

He's a free speech absolutist.

Even though the evidence against Trump is utterly irrefutable, smoking-gun, no possibility of misinterpretation, it seems like the Republican Senators will acquit.

After which, the Republican Party really ought to change its name to the Anti-Democracy Party. Or maybe the Anti-Constitution Party, or some meld of the two.

Their names will live in infamy forever.

Anti-Democracy Party. — Wayfarer

They’d probably agree to the “Anti-Democrat Party” at least.

Even though the evidence against Trump is utterly irrefutable, smoking-gun, no possibility of misinterpretation, it seems like the Republican Senators will acquit. — Wayfarer

Of course.

But they are only thinking of how many of those 74 million or so that voted Trump are indeed "Trump loyalists" and think that the election was stolen. The Republican politicians are just meandering here not to get those people to dump the GOP, nothing else. They are thinking more about NOS4A2 than Trump.

The good thing here is that Trump is so utterly incompetent in leadership qualities as otherwise he really would make it his party. The fact that simply take away the ability to send tweets with his smart phone and he has been totally incapable of reaching out to anybody. Has Trump given an interview after the election? No, or at least I didn't find it. Has he participated otherwise in the discussion? No, I don't think so. Is he controlling the GOP. How? This isn't a man in control or planning to make a comeback. This is a defeated, humiliated, grandfather who sits in front of his television and bitches about everything and has an average level tantrum about the performance of his lawyers in the impeachment trial.

Is he controlling the GOP. How? — ssu

He has many minions throughout the party organisation who will happily kneecap anyone who speaks against him. I agree with you that he’s finished, but it’s really dispiriting to hear the bile spewing from his defenders in the Senate. Defending the indefensible with blizzards of lies. A dumpster fire, and the stench is awful.

He has many minions throughout the party organisation who will happily kneecap anyone who speaks against him. — Wayfarer

The My Pillow guy?

What you have is many people using him, riding on his wake. You see, Trump isn't a party leader. He isn't any kind of leader of people, a person who would organize people to do something. What he basically would be, if his Twitter account wasn't closed, the master of commenting issues through tweets.

The thing that the majority of GOP members are doing are not impeaching him. That hardly means that Trump is in charge of the party and controlling it. (Who controls a party is for example Vladimir Putin and his United Russia -party, which btw hold 74,4% of the seats in the Russian Duma.)

The My Pillow guy? — ssu

No, the State branches, the Republican Party organisation right across the country. Nothing to do with that Pillow idiot. Trump IS the defacto leader of the Party, which is why they will vote to acquit. Probably. I’m still holding out hope, but not holding my breath.

I'm too tired in the middle of the night now to connect this properly to the Trump impeachment, but someone whose knowledge I trust said in a chat server earlier tonight:

the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution holds that people that commit sedition against the US require 2/3 approval from Congress to be allowed to sit in Congress, so if anything, allowing them to continue to hold their seats is unconstitutional

Discuss?

well that’s the whole point - conviction requires a super-majority, which means in this house, 17 Republicans voting to convict (in addition to the Democrats). Everyone is saying that this won’t happen, but it will be interesting to see how many do, and I still reckon there’s an outside chance. I mean, imagine you’re a GOP congressman - do you want Trump and his minions breathing down your neck for the next four years? When you know that voting ‘yes’ will drive a wooden stake through its heart? If Trump really was convicted and barred from holding office ever again, then what becomes of Trumpism? Will Josh Hawley or Ted Cruz be the anointed one? Very much doubt it.

This is a defeated, humiliated... — ssu

Not until he's in jail.

Presumably they'd have to be found guilty in court of insurrection or rebellion before that would apply.

Edit: Although see here. Section 3 of the 14th Amendment was removed by Congress in 1898?

Trump IS the defacto leader of the Party — Wayfarer

What he isn't is a Party leader. Period. (And yes, obviously the GOP doesn't have a leader now...)

What he's interested is his own image, and even there he flunked the test. Just look how "interested" he was about the senate seats in the end (that the GOP then lost).

You see, it's one thing to sit at a table and have people introduce you policy questions and options from what you choose something of your liking. That's what a POTUS does. That's basically what an investor like Trump does. It's another thing to organize a party and get various people with different objectives and agendas to work coherently as a group. In other words, to lead them.

All that is of interest now is how the Senate will vote; this will tell us how broken democracy is in 'merica.

Just how cowardly are the GOP?

how can trump still have so much influence?

what's infinitely depressing are the lawyers and politicians who continue to support Trump, and the voters who still believe him, even after all this. You would hope after this dreadful trial that there would be nobody left to support him - but no. The power of the delusion.

The point of that quote was that the senators voting on it, if they themselves are traitors, require 2/3 vote to STAY in congress, so they should need all of the republicans plus 17 democrats to allow them to even keep their seats to have a vote on the impeachment.

Oh I see, I missed that, thanks for the explanation.