I'm suggesting the primary hidden variable is charge distribution in the double-slit chamber — Enrique

I have no idea how "charge distribution" might work. But it could be similar to my own understanding of how quantum-scale particles can act like waves in a fluid medium. Scientists haven't been able to detect such a fluid, once called "aether". But they still can't come-up with a better alternative. Here's my own wild guess.

I'm not an expert on Quantum Physics, but the "hidden variable" that is typically assumed by experts is simply Entanglement. My own amateur analogy of particle entanglement is to imagine that individual particles are "dissolved" in a universal "fluid", like sugar in water. We can't detect the fluid directly because it's not physical, but meta-physical (i.e. mathematical relationships).

One example of such an amorphous entity is Quantum Fields, usually compared to gaseous clouds. Although the assumed components of a field are not detectable, hence "hidden", they may be defined as meta-physical mathematical points, that have no actual extension in space, hence Virtual, not Actual. In my analogy with a gas or fluid, the points or particles may also be defined by their potential "charge" of positive/negative, or up/down spin. But, until Virtual particles are actualized, the virtual charge (quantum state) can't be measured.

Anyway, since all fundamental particles are identical, it doesn't matter which "point" within the liquid goes through which slot. When the flowing fluid divides and then continues on to the target screen, it gives the appearance of isolated impacts. When in fact, they are still entangled, but at a distance. Please pardon my presumption, to pass your "charge distribution" model through my own metaphorical slits. :nerd:

Double-Double-Slit : momentum entangled photons :
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-68181-1

Entanglement, in this analogy, is equivalent to immersion in a medium, so that all parts are loosely inter-connected

Charge : a property or quality conveyed from one place to another, as a wagon carries a load,
(Late Latin carricāre “to load a wagon)

I think that all interactions between physical objects are carried out by means of fields. This is revealed trough the concept of potential energy. Physical objects do not directly interact with each other, because the kinetic energy which is attributable to one, is related to the other as potential energy, and the two 'energies' are not the same, but equivalent. The difference between the kinetic energy of one object and the kinetic energy of the other object, in the same respect, is represented as field which shows the potential energy. So there is no particle or "wavicle" which moves from one object to another, only interactions between the fields, and the resulting change to the objects which are interacting with each other. We can say that the change to one object is equivalent to the change in the other object, when they interact, but there is really nothing which moves from one to the other, only an interaction of fields.

I have no idea how "charge distribution" might work. But it could be similar to my own understanding of how quantum-scale particles can act like waves in a fluid medium. — Gnomon

By charge distribution I mean as in a thunderstorm, where the cloud and the ground are positively charged with negatively charged atmosphere between them. The storm creates charge peaks on multiple patches of ground, then lightning strikes develop as electricity materializing at some of these spots synchronizes with that coming down from the sky, these prongs of current stairstepping towards each other until they connect and a surge of electricity is transmitted. All of this of course happens in a fraction of a second, undetectable to the naked eye.

I'm hypothesizing the double-slit experiment as analogous to a thunderstorm, where the emission event and absorbing material give rise to clouds of negative charge (from large quantities of electrons), presumably separated by a cloud of positive charge induced between them (the opposite of weather). The apparent "interference pattern" would then not be due to interference at all, but rather produced by patches of negative charge that form a symmetrical pattern on the absorber surface because of the symmetry of the experimental setup. As the emission device revves up, the absorber charges are activated, setting the statistical distribution of particle transmission. Electric charges loosely parameterize the motion of a "chosen one" absorption event and the emission event as they approach each other in a similar stairstep fashion and link, with an individual particle stretched linearly as it travels through at least one of the slits (maybe all of them somehow?), flowing along the microscopic lightning bolt's path and making contact with the screen in a seemingly random manner, at a particular point. (Maybe this wouldn't be the reverse of weather but instead similar somehow, I'm not sure.)

In the brain, current flows through neurons as the relative positivity/negativity of charge between their internal and intermembrane space alternates. This process is regulated by the cyclical flow of ions into and out of the axon. Action potentials throughout the brain are happening trillions of times per second so that the organ is like a highly organized electrical storm. These orderly periodicities of charge disequilibrium are presumably what generates brainwaves, and in my hypothesis also provide the medium of nonlocality within which entanglement effects occur, similar to a thunderstorm and the double-slit experiment. This electrical charge nonlocality within the brain is strong and persistent enough that relatively large biomolecules within cells can entangle as per the OP, far beyond the double-slit experiment's limits (whether or not the particle happens to travel through multiple slits simultaneously I suppose).

Nonlocality of an electrically charged field establishes entanglement relationships between particles in a way that is infused into the matter itself but also supervenient on local positions. This supervenient integration that is intrinsic to matter while it consists in electric charge differential generates "qualia" or additive entanglement amongst particles, and with sufficient complexity in emergent organization can result in qualitative perception. Essentially, charge distribution participates in piloting particle interactions via entanglement within many circumstances, and this shows up in quantum mechanics as statistical probability.

Not a complete explanation for consciousness, but perhaps contains some basics.

In this account, the wavicle doesn't fill up the double-slit chamber as if transmitted like aether, or else why wouldn't the phenomenon be easily observed with particles under all naturally occurring conditions, an existence of total superposition? In this model, holism of charge distribution within matter is the entanglement mechanism, instead of highly constrained particle position or state and the accompanying paradoxes of action at a distance.

Maybe a compromise between the wave and particle models is possible that sustains realism, a wavicle which warps into different, sometimes higher dimensional shapes depending on electric charges and similar such globally active factors in its environment.

We can say that the change to one object is equivalent to the change in the other object, when they interact, but there is really nothing which moves from one to the other, only an interaction of fields. — Metaphysician Undercover

I agree that your idea represents what is going on at a more fundamental level, but the dynamics of wavicles are real, as amorphous field contours, and so are of course valid as fodder for empiricism. Particularities are constitutive properties of fields and more effectively connect with our conceptual intuitions as the situation presently stands, but maybe experiments and mathematical principles will someday be devised that get closer to the essence of fields instead of residing at a more holographic sort of level.

In this model, holism of charge distribution within matter is the entanglement mechanism, — Enrique

Yes. I think Consciousness is a holistic phenomenon of the brain, and not found in any of its parts, such as neurons. So in my analogy, what you are calling "charge distribution" is how positive & negative values (of meaning) are arranged in the brain into meaningful patterns : akin to the double-slit experiment's "distribution" into dark & light stripes. The "entangled" (inter-related) bits add-up to bytes of meaning.

Of course, I don't know what I'm talking about, when it comes to the minute technicalities of brain science and quantum theory. I'm just comparing my personal worldview, based on Information as the fundamental element of reality, to the conundrums and paradoxes of cutting-edge science. Consequently, this analogy is missing many intermediate steps.

Information is essentially a mathematical ratio (relationship), which the human mind interprets into self-referenced meaning. Hence, entanglement of parts (of brain & body) into a whole system (the Self), is what allows Consciousness to arise. I may try to further develop that notion, inspired by your "charge distribution" and "entanglement" theory. But, I can't say exactly how "wavicles", passing through a slit , might give rise to Consciousness, except by assuming that the abstract interference patterns (distributed into stripes, dots, etc) can be somehow interpreted into personal meaning (good or bad for me). :nerd:


Information :
Knowledge and the ability to know. Technically, it's the ratio of order to disorder, of positive to negative, of knowledge to ignorance. It's measured in degrees of uncertainty. Those ratios are also called "differences". So Gregory Bateson* defined Information as "the difference that makes a difference". The latter distinction refers to "value" or "meaning". Babbage called his prototype computer a "difference engine". Difference is the cause or agent of Change. In Physics it’s called "Thermodynamics" or "Energy". In Sociology it’s called "Conflict".

A pattern is a regularity in the world, in human-made design, or in abstract ideas. As such, the elements of a pattern repeat in a predictable manner . . . . Any of the senses may directly observe patterns. Conversely, abstract patterns in science, mathematics, or language may be observable only by analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern

Could aether inherently use wormholes? Newtonian space and time are purely incorporeal, while aether as quintessence is neither actual not potential but some type of emanation, a fluid that has aspects of material and immaterial ( "simple") existence. Bell's inequalities are explained by only saying that time works differently than we thought at the quantum level. But using wormholes in a fluid might be a better way to answer the dilemma. It would coordinate our understanding of time as a conscious species of animals

These aren't full-fledged ideas, just me awkwardly riffing around on a somewhat goofy morning (six cups of coffee wAAAAAAAAAA), so your insights are much appreciated, that's the whole point, trying to find a way forward!

It's ok. I drink energy drinks and like to listen to classic rock sometimes when I'm reading philosophy books.

It would coordinate our understanding of time as a conscious species of animals — Gregory

...such as the double-slit wavicle, which could perhaps consist in a flash of qualia existing for a fraction of a second, or human consciousness as the integration of a diversely entangled qualia substrate, or a thunderstorm as subsisting in the mind of Zeus! lol

but the dynamics of wavicles are real, as amorphous field contours, and so are of course valid as fodder for empiricism. — Enrique

Are you sure that these "amorphous field contours" are not just theoretical? What physicists know as a "field" is just a map of something they don't really understand. Any "amorphous field contours" are part of the map, which is a map of probabilities, so they are only as real as a probability is real.

Are you sure that these "amorphous field contours" are not just theoretical? What physicists know as a "field" is just a map of something they don't really understand. Any "amorphous field contours" are part of the map, which is a map of probabilities, so they are only as real as a probability is real. — Metaphysician Undercover

According to my limited knowledge at this stage, the quantum wave function is a probabilistic approximation to the relationship between initial conditions and the final orientation of real wavicles. These real wavicles are perturbations in what is more fundamental, something like fields as per your definition, with the concept of a field capable of eventually including all possible nonlocal causation within its scope. I'm not sure if anything can get more basic than a unified field model encompassing the entirety of nonlocality, but anything further would make future humans badass!

Could aether inherently use wormholes? Newtonian space and time are purely incorporeal, while aether as quintessence is neither actual not potential but some type of emanation, a fluid that has aspects of material and immaterial ( "simple") existence. Bell's inequalities are explained by only saying that time works differently than we thought at the quantum level. But using wormholes in a fluid might be a better way to answer the dilemma. — Gregory

To clarify this point, I think it might be flawed to think of aether as a completely separate medium through which wavicles travel, for this constitutes a kind of unparsimonious substance duality. In my estimation, wavicles must be made of the same essential "aetherlike" substance except moving and concentrating in a relatively local configuration. Maybe it makes sense to think of a tunneling wavicle for instance as not traveling through a wormhole but actually being the wormhole, smeared out supradimensionally while it transits as induced by charge differentials and perhaps additional entanglement forces of synchronicity.

Whether macroscopic objects can travel through a wormhole is probably a different issue.

"Intelligence is recognitive: it cognises an intuition, but only because that intuition is already its own." Hegel



Your ideas are very interesting!! Descartes's gel -like "second matter" is analogous to Newton's quintessence, although the former is a physicality understanding. The mind over matter (or matter over mind) question in philosophy is very related to this subject

Descartes's gel -like "second matter" is analogous to Newton's quintessence, although the former is a physicality understanding. — Gregory

It has occurred to me and additional posters on this forum that dark energy could be a sort of quintessence, with properties such as nondilution upon expansion that set it apart from the rest of materiality, almost like its own pervading phase state. Even if its not fundamentally distinct, it might play the role of an aether in relation to many physical mechanisms.

According to the edition of the Britannica Encyclopedia I have, Descartes held that gravity was not magnetic but was instead second matter squeezing out "globulars" (spherical particles) like cannon balls towards the earth and somehow this was coordinated in a circular way by a universal "vortex". This squeezing squishy action makes sense to me when talking about cosmology for some reason.

Which ideas of common sense we need to retain and which we need to discard is a huge question however.

I guess i have a concluding thought. Just observations :)

According to the edition of the Britannica Encyclopedia I have, Descartes held that gravity was not magnetic but was instead second matter squeezing out "globulars" (spherical particles) like cannon balls towards the earth and somehow this was coordinated in a circular way by a universal "vortex". — Gregory

Whoa, that idea is bizarre! I'm not extremely familiar with the details of relativity theory, but I've read that Earth experiences incoming gravitational waves with a postulated quanta called the graviton. Maybe these waves participate in compressing the gravitational field and matter of our planet. The galaxy certainly rotates like a vortex. I guess he wasn't totally off his rocker!