Then again, catastrophic wars have boosted our technological advances profoundly. Furthermore, something like globalization and it's intercontinental supply chains can indeed be fragile to disasters, but how fragile are things like the written word when nearly all of us can read?

"Sending us back to the stone age" ought not to be taken literally.

at the moment we unleash all atomic weapons, the future will resemble the past, humanity's future would be indistinguishable from its past - stone age. — TheMadFool

Except for the elite who will probably be aboard a laser-armed, V2K-capable space station orbiting Earth far enough away to appear (if even at all) as a star. This could very well be the new Pantheon. Or as some dare suggest, the very same. Are some fates worse than death? Perhaps. It depends on your value of life and at what point, if any, some become commodified.

I don't imagine humankind could survive the fall of modern civilisation. There are too many of us, and we are too alienated from the processes of production to retreat to the rural idyll should something fry all the microchips. The fall of Rome in 410 AD was a calamity. The fall of modern civilisation would be a thousand times worse. It wouldn't resemble the past at all.

To All

One word, Atlantis. Ring any bells?

What do you think about the idea of the lost continent of Atlantis? I know that Plato mentioned Atlantis. The whole idea of lost civilisations is interesting. We know about the fall of Rome, and about the history of Egypt, but the idea of civilisations before that is interesting too.

But, if it happened, and we became a part of the 'mythic' past it is interesting to know how they would view our world, our history from the perspective of the past. What would be interesting is if some computer hardware and software surfaced and they had access to some information on the internet and tried to reconstruct history of fallen civilisation, from a distant point in the future.

Just wondering if there's a reset button for the earth and even for the universe itself. K-Pg extinction event?

It appears that, the way I see it, a certain level of destructive ability or power if you will, once attained and used, the past and the future are identical. There's a reflection symmetry between the past and the future, the line of symmetry being the ultimate world-ending weapon or event if one takes into consideration such things as giant asteroids. In our case, according to some, nuclear weapons have the power to, well, "...send us back to the stone age..." i.e. at the moment we unleash all atomic weapons, the future will resemble the past, humanity's future would be indistinguishable from its past - stone age. — TheMadFool

The most plausible scenario for a future "Dark Age" would be an economic collapse along with a cultural and political collapse that would consequently affect technology - drastically -.

This had already happened twice in the past of mankind - during the "Bronze Age Collapse" and, more recently, "The Fall of the Roman Empire" - and even so, we continue to endure, and strangely, technologically we have only been advancing.

Hegel and his "Theory of the Spirit of History" - where the consequence of reality and the history of humanity, is bringing to light some "transcendental" rational objective - seems to be correct in terms of technology:

We have the thesis - Roman society's technology -;
The antithesis - Germanic Christian society's technology - Middle Ages - -.
And the synthesis - contemporary society's technology -.

It is very likely that we will recover, but not in the next 500, 600, 700 years, but in the next 2000 years.

I only doubt that we will ever again use "petroleum based" technology in the future. We'll find another way, or we'll never recover.

An interesting point of view but the way I see it, the world's technology is known to only a small segment of humanity, there maybe, at the most, only a few million (scientists, technologists, machinists, roboticists) of us who can, if forced to, rebuild the technological infrastructure from scratch and I haven't even mentioned those involved in the supply chain of raw materials; the rest, the majority, know next to nothing about technology. The chances are, if a global catastrophe does occur, those who survive will be technologically illiterate and hence the stone age scenario is a real possibility.

Anyway, what I really want to find out is a point in our history (culturally, socially, economically, technologically, scientifically, etc.), assuming that it exists, that can be taken to be a line of symmetry such that every point on one side of this line has an equivalent and indistinguishable point on the other side. Sudden events like asteroid impacts and nuclear holocausts are too quick for a real one-to-one symmetry by which I mean, the stone age was thousands of years ago in the past but the one that follows a quick-acting cataclysmic event will be just a few decades in the future; in short, asteroid impacts and nuclear holocausts bring about their effects suddenly instead of gradually like how it happened in the past.

Another point I want to mention is that our notion of progress maybe flawed. On what grounds do we come to the conclusion that stone age people were primitive and we're more advanced? Machines, medicine, lifespan, etc.? With such criteria, sure, the present is more advance than the past but if one looks at it in terms of harmony, equilibrium with one's environment, we get an F.

1177 BC -- The year civilization collapsed.

Saw this on Youtube a while back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1177_B.C.:_The_Year_Civilization_Collapsed

Point being that the world's collapsed more than once. Our weapons are new but our problems aren't.

I came across that video too but all these historical records of the collapse of civilizations have one thing in common viz. there was always a tehcnological link between them and later civilizations simply picked up the thread so to speak where dead civilizations left off.

The kind of global catastrophe I'm talking about is one that would, in the literal sense, wipe the slate clean - there would be a complete erasure of all knowledge (gained) and perhaps evolution itself would be reset and the entire process would have to begin afresh as if the present state of civilization had never even existed.

I don't imagine humankind could survive the fall of modern civilisation. There are too many of us, and we are too alienated from the processes of production to retreat to the rural idyll should something fry all the microchips — counterpunch

Farmers would still farm the world over, I think, with less output probably.

An interesting point of view but the way I see it, the world's technology is known to only a small segment of humanity, there maybe, at the most, only a few million (scientists, technologists, machinists, roboticists) of us who can, if forced to, rebuild the technological infrastructure from scratch and I haven't even mentioned those involved in the supply chain of raw materials; the rest, the majority, know next to nothing about technology. The chances are, if a global catastrophe does occur, those who survive will be technologically illiterate and hence the stone age scenario is a real possibility. — TheMadFool

"Back to the Stone Age" is not a reality as we have already gone through cataclysmic situations of complete societal break and still, we endured. The "Middle Ages" itself is an example of how much we are able to go back and - eventually - recover - Rome, in 117 AD - under the government of Trajan - had a population of 2.5 million inhabitants. In 520, after the Gothic wars - under Justinian - the city shrinked to the population of 10,000 inhabitants and only reached the margin of 1 million, after the 19th century -. The culture, morals, principles, values, were totally distorted and disregarded - along with the collapse of Rome and we - humans - lived in a simplistic relationship of master and servant - feudal system - for more than 1500 years - 1700 years as in Russia -.

I believe that technologies like the "Internet", the "Car", "Electricity", etc ... will be lost and forgotten for hundreds of years - the heating used by the Romans in their homes during the winters had been completely lost by medieval people, however, bureaucratic concepts and classic philosophical concepts were maintained and even extended during the medieval period - but eventually, some will be recovered, and new ones will be invented.

The Stone Age will only be reached if a conscious effort is made by humanity itself to reach it.

in short, asteroid impacts and nuclear holocausts bring about their effects suddenly instead of gradually like how it happened in the past. — TheMadFool

Well, the "meteor that killed the dinossaurs" in reality, only caused the beginning of the extinction. The complete extinction was only achieved 100 thousand years after the impact. So I don't think it is immediate.

terms of harmony, equilibrium with one's environment, we get an F. — TheMadFool

The terms you have decided to use are completely subjective. I am 100% sure that they would love to live as "Gods" - we, in their eyes - in our era.

"Evolution" is not something abstract or relative, but something rational, logical and pragmatic.

Just wondering if there's a reset button for the earth and even for the universe itself. K-Pg extinction event? — TheMadFool

First commandment. The eternal God, existing outside of time, who perhaps any attempted personification or manifestation would simply be: Father Time. Chronus I believe another name was. When man discovers how to disrupt the flow of time, and attempts to do so (ie. attempts to become omnipresent, omniscient, and to exist outside of time aka to "become God" or create an idol that attempts to rival or give man mastery over God or time such as particle accelerators) it will create a slowly-expanding black hole that will consume the entire galaxy. For a time. :grin:

Anything non-scientific aside, it is a "cosmic" book that urges humans to worship God as an eternal entity that exists outside of time (perhaps even alluding to being time itself), that this entity is to be respected and we are not to question or attempt to change it, or else, we may be doomed to a "lake of fire", perhaps due to said potential black hole(s) stripping the atmosphere away and leaving the planet at the mercy of cosmic radiation and the like. It lines up perfectly to be honest. Perhaps.. there is a face on Mars. The last thing a doomed civilization who mastered the sciences a little too well managed to sprawl out in their last moments... a galactic S.O.S. to any and all who would see it, a simple "hello".. and unfortunately, goodbye. Or who knows. Perhaps they made it to the next planet after all... who's to say. Kind of like the ending to Children of Men. What's the name of that book about men and women again? :grin:

According to several theories from various physicists at least (the possibility of a space-time rip not the Mars part). I believe Stephen King produced a book and later movie about this called "The Langoliers". Highly recommended if you haven't seen it by the way.

You speak of the fall of civilisation of Rome, but there may have been civilisations and cycles long before this. I know that continents such as Atlantis and Mu are questionable beyond mythical truths, but they do point to the possibility of many highly sophisticated civilisations before those of which most people are aware.

Even thinking of the history we do know about, it would seem that the Egyptians had extremely sophisticated technology. No one has really come to a clear conclusion about how the pyramids were developed.

We also don't know what technology is yet to come to our civilisation or any future one. If people a hundred years ago had been told about the internet, Zoom and Wifi, they may have said that is not possible. Even with energy resources there might be untapped energy resources. For all we know, energy resources may be enabled through use of resources in out of space or perhaps petroleum will be created in a laboratory. I know that this might sound bizarre but there are things already taking place, such as nanotechnology.

That is not to say that I don't think that we are in a deep mess. I do believe that we may be at the end of this civilisation or even all civilisations on earth, but we really don't know. I like to keep an open mind in imagining all possibilities. What is science fiction today may become a future reality.

You speak of the fall of civilisation of Rome, but there may have been civilisations and cycles long before this. — Jack Cummins

Yes, and for that very reason I made it a point to make it explicit that this had already occurred - the complete societal collapse - twice in the history of mankind:

"The Bronze Age Collapse";
"The Fall of the Roman Empire".

The point of me, for the most part, focusing on Roman society, is that it was the foundation of everything that would come to structure contemporary Western society.

The Bronze Age, in a way, had very little influence on the West - of all existing civilizations during the period - Hittite Empire, New Kingdom of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon and Mycenaean Greece - only the "Achaians" - aka "Greeks" - left a legacy that would last until today in the West -. Classical Greece, and all its culture of values and principles would emerge as a direct consequence of the collapse.

Atlantis — Jack Cummins

Well, the only "historical" record we have of a Greek "Atlantis" comes from Homer, which is not considered a historical "reliable" source because his own sources came from traditional oral tales of the Greek people during the "Greek Dark Ages" - that precedes "Classical Greece" -.

If we took his description - quoting Homer: "The great and majestic metropolis of Atlantidae, is at the western end of the Pillars of Hercules. There are many tales of this great and splendid city; the same one that consists of three great circles, with each ring being divided by a large ring of water. Many adventurers tried to find it, but so far, none have been able to return." -, "Atlantis", would be a great metropolis of the period, most likely a Phoenician colony built on the coast of modern-day Morocco or even on the coast of modern-day "Mauretania". The peculiar part and that historians are attached as evidence of "Atlantis" being a simple myth, is its architecture:

"three large circles, with each ring being divided by a large ring of water."

If the city, for convenience, was one of the largest cities of the time - doubtful -, it would have between 75,000 to 100,000 inhabitants.

Being built in one of the most arid areas on the planet, in an era where human knowledge of architecture was simple, and in a period when humanity had collapsed as a whole - the "world" at the time was the Middle East - it is very unlikely that such a city could have been created.

Most likely the recorded tales of Homer were actually about the great metropolis of "Carthage", off the coast of Africa, west of mainland Greece, which had been "mytholized" by the Greek peoples who were born and lived after the collapse of the Mycenic civilization, and which was hardly affected by the crises that devastated the Middle East.