So what would you expect to see? How would you test for it? — Wayfarer
Then you’d ask a participant to freely choose to raise their arm at any point in time. — khaled
Say, raising your arm. And check whatever neuron results in the raising. — khaled
You would think that if this process was mechanical then the subject wouldn’t be able to tell if these were a consequence of the surgeon’s activities. — Wayfarer
But if the subject could tell that these movements were being triggered by the surgeon, what would that say? — Wayfarer
Neurons don’t do anything. Attributing voluntary actions to cells or brains or other metabolic systems is called ‘the mereological fallacy.’ — Wayfarer
What is “this process” that is mechanical? I don’t understand. — khaled
and the subject was always able to differentiate self-initiated action from that which was brought about by the surgeon — Wayfarer
But he could not discover an area associated with a subjects’ own voluntary movement — Wayfarer
Mechanical means explication in terms of cellular actions; as distinct from voluntary. — Wayfarer
The words "philosophy" and "to philosophize" also have distinctly negative connotations.All this being said, there might be something in the subjects of philosophy that irrates people. — Olivier5
Is the claim here that voluntary action somehow changes the course of cellular action? That the mind breaks physics and chemistry? — khaled
You would think that if this process was mechanical then the subject wouldn’t be able to tell if these were a consequence of the surgeon’s activities. — Wayfarer
The non-reductionist claim is that mind is not reducible to physical principles. — Wayfarer
It doesn’t ‘break’ those laws but says that their scope is limited — Wayfarer
Do you think his ideas have been discredited? — Wayfarer
However the brain is a material thing. — khaled
Early neurosurgeons were very like garden machinery mechanics sent to work on a space rocket. — Isaac
I dispute that. The brain is an embodied organ. — Wayfarer
Far as I can tell the brain strictly falls within the list of things that are material. You can hold it, see it, everything. — khaled
This probably has to do with people's tendency to strongly identify with their thoughts, their beliefs, to see them as parts of their person. So that when someone in any way steps on the metaphorical toes of those beliefs (such as by discussing them, less or more philosophically), people feel like someone actually physically stepped on their toes, or worse. — baker
But being able to hold it or see it or weigh it tells you nothing about what it does. — Wayfarer
The reference to ‘embodied’ is with respect to ‘embodied cognition’. And the point of that perspective is that ‘the brain’ in itself, is an inert collection of stuff. Only when it is situated in a body, in a nervous system, and in an environment, is its power realised. — Wayfarer
In determining meaning, which determines course of action. — Wayfarer
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