Both, and any further understanding will be governed by how the terms of the question are defined (and not least the words "you" and "believe"). That is, if you throw dice, you both know and do not know exactly what the outcome will be.Do you believe the universe is inherently deterministic or indeterministic (and why)? — Paul S
Do you believe the universe is inherently deterministic or indeterministic (and why)? — Paul S
On one hand, it is deterministic in the sense that everything that will ever happen already exists and cannot change. — litewave
Einstein once wrote that ‘God does not play dice’ when responding to a letter from the German physicist Max Born. Born argued that at the heart of quantum mechanics is randomness and uncertainly. — Paul S
From my reading, I get the impression that quantum occurrences must be more deterministic than modeled by graphs of total statistical probability. — Enrique
I feel that if there is a probability distribution than can describe possible states of a system for waves (superposition) that is indeterministic, then that makes our lives indeterministic from a point of view. Our brains are also electrical and light literally moves around in waves inside our minds too. It would make make our thinking indeterministic too? — Paul S
In my assessment, it would make the measurement of those physical processes in terms of current quantum mechanics extremely probabilistic — Enrique
We shall see. The fate of free will hangs in the balance lol — Enrique
Do you believe the universe is inherently deterministic or indeterministic (and why)? — Paul S
My question (as to both questions):My question
Do you believe the universe is inherently deterministic or indeterministic (and why)?
(Do you believe God/the universe/your chosen deity plays dice?) — Paul S
Sub specie aeternitatus the 'inflationary-relativistic' universe is deterministic. Sub specie durationis the 'planck-scale' universe is indeterministic. ("Why?" vide Epicurus-Lucretius, Spinoza, Schrödinger-Heisenberg-Everett, Meillassoux ...)Do you believe the universe is inherently deterministic or indeterministic (and why)? — Paul S
Speculatively speaking, of course, I believe 'the dice themselves' are eternally rolling – determined – and that the number of dice and number of sides (i.e. size) of each die are indeterminate. (vide Rovelli, Deutsch, Tegmark ...)(Do you believe God/the universe/your chosen deity plays dice?)
:fire:My question (as to both questions):
What difference does it make to how we live, what we do? — Ciceronianus the White
:death: :flower:If he plays dice, nothing is different than it has been. If he doesn't, nothing is different than it has been.
And also the context of ontology: vacuum fluctuations, spontaneous symmetry-breaking (Noether's Theorem), quantum tunneling, radioactivity, etc. — 180 Proof
he difference though is in your journey to accept that. — Paul S
The jury is still out. LQG hasn't panned out yet. (Rovelli)Is it not the case that space / space-time must be quantised if determinism has to break down at a certain point, ... — Paul S
Paradox? No, it's only an apparent one speaking in folk-terms (non-mathematically, classically); like time, "space" – void – isn't "made of" any thing.... and that leaves the paradox of what is space made of?
Is it not the case that space / space-time must be quantised if determinism has to break down at a certain point, and that leaves the paradox of what is space made of? — Paul S
When you ask what something is 'made of' you presume it has constituents or elements - which surely must be in question with respect to space. The nature of the existence of space - whether it is inherently real, or whether it is in part constituted by cognition - is still an open, and possibly an unanswerable, question. — Wayfarer
Take the example in your OP - dice - which are, if you really look at it, deterministic phenomena - if one has complete knowledge of the initital state of the dice and also of the nature of the force that you apply as your roll the dice, you can predict the outcome with 100% accuracy - and yet they behave as if they're truly indeterministic processes when in fact they aren't as explained above. — TheMadFool
I agree that Einstein would see a dice roll as deterministic, and he was using the analogy more to say that he doesn't believe God would allow true randomness or indeterminism to play a part in the roll so to speak. But the act of rolling a die manifests from the central nervous system so the question is whether that the human mind and central nervous system is deterministic or not. But if the human mind and nervous system are deterministic, you can't escape from the reality that free will would be an illusion. — Paul S
That's an intriguing twist in the plot but I think robotic hands can also manage "random" dice rolls...I'm not sure though. — TheMadFool
I don't see why not if you have a source of "true" randomness like an unstable electrical field for example. But you could argue then that it would be the electrical field calling the shots, not the robot and its not for sure that there is truly such a thing as true randomness, but it is claimed. — Paul S
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