The best way to become an atheist is to read the Bible — Dan Barker
A penny for your thoughts — TheMadFool
The best way to become an atheist is to read the Bible — Dan Barker
What paradox? — 180 Proof
:zip:To all The Bible can't be held in one mind... — TheMadFool
:fire:Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him:
"Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot."
Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying:
"That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it." — Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a
To all The Bible can't be held in one mind... — TheMadFool
"That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it." — Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a
wonder how Dan Barker would respond to your comment and Hillel's insight? Barker seems to be much concerned with the many contradictions which he alleges the Bible suffers from. By his reasoning another, more suitable, title for the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran, is "Contradiction" and he wants nothing to do with them. — TheMadFool
Trying to eff the effable? – yeah, that's poetry. Multiple "authors" for each of the 66-70+ books, countless mis/translators & redactors. Nothing credible, some nuggests of memorable 'cautionary tales' gleaming in the fossilized, ignorant dung of Ages. So what's your point, Fool? — 180 Proof
And so ... ? — 180 Proof
The bible was assembled and canonized (along with the programmatic "Nicene Creed") at the behest of the pagan Roman Emperor Constantine (and decades later by Emperor Theodosius I). The "problem" it was dealing with was political power – establishing a totalitarian organizing doctrine (like the Avesta, Tanakh, Mahābhārata, Quran, etc) by inscribing 'myth & moralizing' (Nietzsche) in order to justify the subjugation-indoctrination of the masses and scapegoating of – blame-shifting to – 'enemies' within & without (Girard).Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. — Seneca
Why do you say this? How do you know? Whether the "Ten Commandments" at Mt. Sinai or "Nicene Creed" at the Council of Nicea, those scriptural religions were templates for social-political organization. (Islam is even more explicitly political and martial from the start, btw.) I'm not talking about minor eccentric cults but organized systems of worship-control (re: sacrificing & scapegoating). Remember that the Catholic Church produced its bible & creed tailored (in part) to the requirements of Caesar – power before dogma – not the other way around.↪180 Proof All that you mention - the politicizing of religion - came much later, after religion was an entity in its own right. — TheMadFool
Why do you say this? How do you know? Whether the "Ten Commandments" at Mt. Sinai or "Nicene Creed" at the Council of Nicea, those scriptural religions were templates for social-political organization. (Islam even more explicitly political and martial from the start, btw.) I'm not talking about minor eccentric cults but organized systems of worship-control (re: sacrificing & scapegoating). Remember that the Catholic Church produced its bible & creed tailored (in part) to the requirements of Caesar – power before dogma – not the other way around — 180 Proof
To achieve this, power wasn't taken out of the equation but rather transferred from man to a celestial being, god. — TheMadFool
Agreed.... a simple fact - we, humans, are a part of the universe, and morality/ethics matters to us and ergo, the universe has, through us, an ethical side to it. In other words, the search for a foundation for ethics/morality begins from our doorsteps and terminates at that very spot; ...
I'm not gonna leap off that faith-heap with you, Fool. Not only doesn't this statement follow from your naturalist observations, but Nature, of which we're a part, long precedes and far exceeds 'human existence' so much so that saying we're it's "foundation" (of any kind) is like saying birds gliding on the wind are the aerodynamic foundation of the sky or mating fish are the procreative foundation of the sea. :sweat: This 'immanent sky-hook' you're desperately grasping at, Mad Fool, is oxymoronic and anachronistically violates the mediocrity principle.... we - humans - are the ethical foundation of the universe.
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