Do you believe that all the ancient traditions initiating with a conscious source exist at the exoteric level and devolve into opposing opinions. — Nikolas
I couldn't say for certain. I think people are similar so their ideas are often similar. But people are also tribal, so approaches develop and split off and often expand in deliberate contrast. — Tom Storm
to experiencing the wholeness of human being in relation to its origin or what Plotinus called the ONE? — Nikolas
For me there is no pathway or oneness available to us - there are only good and bad ideas. — Tom Storm
what if it is possible to consciously develop from being fixated on fragments to experiencing the wholeness of human being in relation to its origin or what Plotinus called the ONE? Then all the paths can lead to the "way" or what the depth of the human essence needs to experience. How to graduate from a path into the way? — Nikolas
Hadot wrote Plotinus or the Simplicity of Vision in a month-long burst of inspiration in 1963, a lucid, sincere work that is still one of the best introductions to Plotinus. Hadot would continue to translate and comment upon Plotinus throughout the rest of his life, founding in particular the series Les Ecrits de Plotinus a series, still in progress, that provides translations with extensive introductions and commentaries to all the treatises of Plotinus' Enneads, in chronological order.
On a personal level, however, Hadot gradually became detached from Plotinus' thought, feeling that Plotinian mysticism was too otherworldly and contemptuous of the body to be adequate for today's needs. As he tells the story, when he emerged from the month-long seclusion he had imposed upon himself to write Plotinus or The Simplicity of Vision, he went to the corner bakery, and “seeing the ordinary folks all around me in the bakery, I [...] had the impression of having lived a month in another world, completely foreign to our world, and worse than this—totally unreal and even unlivable.”
The Catholic Church fought with the progress of modern society for years. — Gregory
I accept there are other ways of knowing and being, that Niikolas and others are referring to - that it's not just made up, but refers to something real. Real, but off the beaten track of mainstream culture. — Wayfarer
It's easy to read about them or imagine that you might realise them, but in practice it's very difficult. — Wayfarer
Who did it successfully in your view? — Tom Storm
hat's an interesting question. Like a many others I was very attracted to Zen, but after a long while, I realised that Zen is a highly-structured and culturally-specific discipline and that it's very easy to fool yourself that you understand it when you don't. I stuck with sitting practice for many years but it's fallen away since the end of 2019. Can't find the motivation for it, but of those traditions, feel the greatest affinity for Sōtō Zen, specifically the recent teacher Nishijima-roshi.
I don't believe all of the sages of the East, or West, for that matter, have clay feet. The first one I noticed was Ramana Maharishi. But then, probably like you, I used to visit the Adyar Bookshop when it still existed, so I read a lot of those kinds of teachers. Krishnamurti, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche (boy his downfall was an eye-opener).
I've also started to realise that we inherit cultural archetypes. So my current interest is the Western philosophical tradition. Seriously thinking about enrolling in my alma mater to do an MA - in The Argument from Reason. Although I know I'm probably tilting at windmills. :-( — Wayfarer
“seeing the ordinary folks all around me in the bakery, I [...] had the impression of having lived a month in another world, completely foreign to our world, and worse than this—totally unreal and even unlivable.” — Wayfarer
..That said, Hadot devoted the rest of his career to 'philosophy as a way of life', and he sought to understand and teach those 'philosophical exercises' that enabled students to go through the inner transformation that he believes philosophy was originally about. (See entry here.) — Wayfarer
Yes. It was the link in Wayfarer's post re Hadot that didn't work for me.Strangely, the links worked for me — Jack Cummins
like a gift from the divine. — Jack Cummins
I have just thought of a question for people who think about, because I do like to ask questions. — Jack Cummins
That's true. But there are questions that come out of this. Why is it that Christianity - and let's face it, so many religions worldwide - so effortlessly undertake evil actions?
Is it just a matter of believe oneself to be God's favourite? Might it not also be what happens when you think you have access to special knowledge that comes from an uncountable, extramundane source that is the origin of all morality. — Tom Storm
Are you asking those questions for purely rhetorical purposes or are you genuinely curious?
So far in this discussion, I have not opposed your thesis but only remarked upon where your observations did not satisfy my understanding of matters. That does not mean I am representing Torquemada or apologizing for the sins of an institution. You said something was easy-peasy for Christians. It isn't for all of them. — Valentinus
Bottom line, faith has wonderful psychological effects, but it can also be the worse source of evil we have. — Athena
I am so glad that you are keeping up the discussion. It is interesting that you do prefer a literal interpretation of the Bible. I am a bit more on the esoteric level, but I think that there is a whole spectrum of possibilities, ranging from the exoteric and esoteric.
I have not forgotten the thread I started, but need time and creation of new threads, because the matters discussed are extremely complex and need careful thought. However, I think that you are doing so well, in keeping discussion alive. — Jack Cummins
post in that thread forcing me to think about what I think.T Clark — T Clark
Which quality of faith do you refer to? For example Gurdjieff taught that:
Conscious faith is freedom. Emotional faith is slavery. Mechanical faith is foolishness.
As important as it is, how many have ever contemplated the difference? — Nikolas
The only faith I know of is a blind belief. Without it there is doubt. I don't see the logic in doubting what we believe as equalling freedom? I have no idea what a mechanical faith would be? Believing something without questioning it? I don't think I have done that since I was 8 years old. However, I am pretty sure gravity pulls things to earth and I stopped jumping off of the top of the swing, and buildings, with the hope of flying. :lol: — Athena
I noticed your remark about the whole area of linterest in comparative religion and how it is not the way for making a living, and I do empathise. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this was different.I do believe that this is a neglected area of philosophy, where it seems to come down to a rigid question of belief in God, or non belief, depending on how we conceive the whole principle and what the idea of God stands for in the fullest way. — Jack Cummins
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