I don't know. Like I said, I can't imagine what that is like, to live in a world where one isn't demanded to justify one's moral principles to others. I simply haven't lived in such a world. I suppose it's a nice world to live in.Why must I justify the fact that I won't kill some random stranger? Do you believe I should do that? Do you think I must have some reason not to kill some random stranger to refrain from doing so? If so, explain why. If not, don't ask me for a justification. — Ciceronianus the White
I don't know. Like I said, I can't imagine what that is like, to live in a world where one isn't demanded to justify one's moral principles to others. I simply haven't lived in such a world. I suppose it's a nice world to live in. — baker
I don't know. Like I said, I can't imagine what that is like, to live in a world where one isn't demanded to justify one's moral principles to others. I simply haven't lived in such a world. I suppose it's a nice world to live in. — baker
I don't know whether you need to give a justification or not.You don't know whether I should kill some random stranger? Or you don't know whether I must have a reason not to kill some random stranger to refrain from doing so? — Ciceronianus the White
religious people generally don't seem to have any problems with circularity. — baker
Why? It's not like they feel troubled by those circularities.So much the worse for them. — Banno
And invite their wrath?! Justify them beating me up (metaphorically or literally)?!You describe a power imbalance in which you are the one asked to make the justification. Flip that around; seek a justification from those who demand you justify yourself. Learn to use Socratic method.
My point is that the theists themselves are not troubled by their circular thinking. They can go about their days just fine, and they pretty much rule the world, to boot -- and their circular thinking about God doesn't get in the way of their successful functioning.t's not like they feel troubled by those circularities.
— baker
So what? Wrong is wrong, even if people think it is right. — Tom Storm
What if circular thinking isn't as bad as philosophers make it out to be?Racists are untroubled by their beliefs too. Does this mean we follow their lead?
My point is that the theists themselves are not troubled by their circular thinking. — baker
The relevance is that they don't lose sleep over such things, while philosophers do. Now, who's better off?Circular reasoning is a problem in a range of areas and not just confined to theists. You keep coming back to whether people are troubled or not by their logical fallacies. Sorry, but I can't quite work out the relevance. — Tom Storm
Then how is lack of critical thinking a problem?Most people with circular thinking are not troubled by it. Most people are not troubled by their lack of critical thinking in general.
The relevance is that they don't lose sleep over such things, while philosophers do. Now, who's better off? — baker
Humanists display weaknesses here because the World throw so many challenges at them. Even religious people struggle to keep faith so why would Humanists do better? — DrOlsnesLea
↪TheMadMan Good point. If morality is subjective, why should you not call me ugly? I don’t know what country you live in, but I can safely assume that it’s not against the law. Why not call me ugly? — Franz Liszt
My question is if anyone can explain why they would believe this, and how it’s okay for morality to be subjective. — Franz Liszt
Religious morality is subjective so there isn't really a difference in terms of foundational strength. Just see how differently people even within one religion, say Christianity, see issues like gay marriage, the role of women in church and society, capital punishment, euthanasia, abortion. They are all over the place on these issues, change with time and base their moral position on their subjective interpretations of what they think God wants. — Tom Storm
Modern, religious people in "western" societies have usually no problem with gay marriage, the role of women in church and society. — DrOlsnesLea
Besides, what God wants is defined by The 10 Commandments, the Golden Rule and the prayer at start of The New Testament (come thy will on Earth as in Heaven). — DrOlsnesLea
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