• Tom Storm
    9k
    Can I not say it too? In my view in Australia the Hawke/Keating government embraced what was called economic rationalism (now neo-liberalism) which the Howard Government simply took on and ran with. More and more power to corporate interest groups and less power and resources to communities.
  • Tom Storm
    9k
    Sure. We need a new everything.
  • frank
    15.7k
    Does anybody see anything on the horizon that might indicate a reversal this incredibly disturbing trend?synthesis

    Climate change.
  • Pfhorrest
    4.6k
    so do as the Good Book says, and criminalise usuryBanno

    That is more or less my position, though not criminalize per se but invalidate contracts thereof, without which it has no force. (Also, religious prohibitions of usury usually fail to recognize property rent as essentially the exact same thing, which gives an obviously loophole, which is how medieval Catholic and current Muslim banking operates).

    Thing is though that once there’s no way to make money just by owning other people’s stuff and charging them to use it, there’s pretty much no motive to own more than you use yourself anymore, and so no reason to be a supermultibillionaire at all.

    Thus through the invalidation of usury we create socialism, by having the state do less rather than more.
  • baker
    5.6k
    Does anybody see anything on the horizon that might indicate a reversal this incredibly disturbing trend?synthesis
    Blondie's third term.
  • baker
    5.6k
    Thing is though that once there’s no way to make money just by owning other people’s stuff and charging them to use it, there’s pretty much no motive to own more than you use yourself anymore, and so no reason to be a supermultibillionaire at all.Pfhorrest
    Of course there is such a reason: safety. Since time immemorial, people have strived to amass wealth in an effort to guarantee as much safety for themselves as possible.
  • Pfhorrest
    4.6k
    Of course there is such a reason: safety. Since time immemorial, people have strived to amass wealth in an effort to guarantee as much safety for themselves as possible.baker

    That’s reason to accumulate savings enough to last you a lifetime, sure. But that is still far less that what billionaires accumulate.
  • baker
    5.6k
    That’s reason to accumulate savings enough to last you a lifetime, sure. But that is still far less that what billionaires accumulate.Pfhorrest
    If you want to be prudent, you need to prepare for everything, including natural catastrophes and the collapse of economy. For this, billions are needed.
  • Isaac
    10.3k
    If you want to be prudent, you need to prepare for everything, including natural catastrophes and the collapse of economy. For this, billions are needed.baker

    Billions would be of no use to you in the case of the collapse of the economy, would they? A gun and the skill to use it would reverse the acquisition of even a trillion dollars in heartbeat in the case of a collapsed system.
  • Wayfarer
    22.3k
    Unless one can achieve financial independence and intellectual autonomy, individuals will always be controlled (from without) resulting in the loss of essential freedoms (a great American tragedy).synthesis

    I recall reading that when Obama stepped in to save the American automotive industry in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, a faction within the Republican Party argued it would be better to let it collapse rather than save it through Government intervention.

    Do you think the Republicans were right in saying that?
  • baker
    5.6k
    Billions would be of no use to you in the case of the collapse of the economy, would they? A gun and the skill to use it would reverse the acquisition of even a trillion dollars in heartbeat in the case of a collapsed system.Isaac
    Hence having your own army is part of the billionaire's plan for ultimate safety.
    Rich people don't just amass money while living in sheds. They strategically invest in buildings, physical infrastructure, social infrastructure, means of defense etc. etc. that help keep them safe.
  • synthesis
    933
    I recall reading that when Obama stepped in to save the American automotive industry in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, a faction within the Republican Party argued it would be better to let it collapse rather than save it through Government intervention.

    Do you think the Republicans were right in saying that?
    Wayfarer

    Regardless of external conditions, any company that can not remain solvent should be forced into bankruptcy.

    Had the government saved no businesses during the pandemic, people would have seen (early-in) just how insane the lockdowns were and policy would have changed.

    You MUST allow the system to work.
  • synthesis
    933
    Getting back to the point of the thread, you can only have one situation on the ground, either individuals are free agents or groups (corporate-state) have nearly total control. Morphing adults into children (or never creating the conditions for children to mature into adults) is plan A, as fear and dependency are way all systems impose their will.

    Is there anything going on in this country now besides fear and dependency?
  • baker
    5.6k
    Is there anything going on in this country now besides fear and dependency?synthesis
    Blondie's third term! He's your savior! Hallelujah!
  • synthesis
    933
    You need to move on.
  • baker
    5.6k
    If at the next elections, Americans will vote for Trump or his children (and chances are, they will), you will be one major step closer to the America you want: a dog-eat-dog country in which every man is on his own.
  • synthesis
    933
    How much socialism do you want? Who doesn't want to live in a country where you are free to live up to your potential?

    Socialism is about lowering the bar far enough so everybody is miserable.
  • baker
    5.6k
    How much socialism do you want? Who doesn't want to live in a country where you are free to live up to your potential?

    Socialism is about lowering the bar far enough so everybody is miserable.
    synthesis
    False dilemma.

    Who doesn't want to live in a country where you are free to live up to your potential?
    All one needs to do to in order to live in a country where you are free to live up to your potential, is to reconceptualize "free" and "live up to your potential", so that the new concepts match one's reality, whatever that may be.
  • synthesis
    933
    All one needs to do to in order to live in a country where you are free to live up to your potential, is to reconceptualize "free" and "live up to your potential", so that the new concepts match one's reality, whatever that may be.baker

    Just like the people in the USSR, Communist China, and Nazi Germany had to "reconceptualize" what freedom and living up to your potential was.

    No thank you. My wagon will always remained hitched to the traditional conception of American freedom.
  • baker
    5.6k
    My wagon will always remained hitched to the traditional conception of American freedom.synthesis
    By golly, what are you complaining about then??!
  • synthesis
    933
    By golly, what are you complaining about then??!baker

    I am afraid that people like you who desire salvation (from the challenges of life) feel that everybody else must change the way they think in order to feel as desperate as you do.

    It's leftist religion. "Save me, save me, save me" (and save everybody else because they're going to have to pay for it).
  • Tzeentch
    3.7k
    It's a well-known phenomenon in psychology that people who are treated like children, start acting like children.

    And in the case of citizens and governments, I'd say it's an abusive parental relationship.
  • Wayfarer
    22.3k
    You MUST allow the system to work.synthesis

    What 'system'? Laissez-faire capitalism? The 'invisible hand' of the market? Those who can't get by without assistance - leave them to die so 'the system' can return to 'normality'?
  • Tom Storm
    9k
    What 'system'? Laissez-faire capitalism? The 'invisible hand' of the market? Those who can't get by without assistance - leave them to die so 'the system' can return to 'normality'?Wayfarer

    :up:
  • synthesis
    933
    What 'system'? Laissez-faire capitalism? The 'invisible hand' of the market? Those who can't get by without assistance - leave them to die so 'the system' can return to 'normality'?Wayfarer

    Capitalism is the only economic system there is. "Communism" is state-capitalism and socialism is capitalism with the profits redistributed.

    The bottom-line is that the market (society) does a MUCH better job of making choices that a bunch of bureaucrats that inevitably have their heads up their asses (best case scenario)..
  • Wayfarer
    22.3k
    There's never been such a place. It's a purely intellectual construct, a castle in the air, a fairyland in the mind of libertarians.
  • Tom Storm
    9k
    I agree. Much capitalism appears to be dictatorship by corporations and socialism for the rich.
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