It is a lot more satisfying to do this than to argue indirectly, IMO. — jgill
I can offer a couple of reading suggestions based on these two comments. — aletheist
The greatest error of modernity is saying that the world is information and is not as it appears to us. The world we see transcends any interpretation of QM and psychological studies on mind-matter interaction. What you see is what there is. There is more there, but not less. Any other position is insanity. Zeno's paradox will never have a complete solution, but it is a sign of a healthy position to be comfortable with a paradox — Gregory
I've noticed that when I hit the button and enter Ryan, your handle doesn't come up. Do you know why that is? Moderators, any clues? — fishfry
Why is this my problem, or math's problem? — fishfry
Aristotle's "solution" was that the whole exists prior to parts. To which I ask:
1) do the parts of the whole exist
2) how many are there of these parts. — Gregory
There is no true ontology in that field of research and if you think your body is primarily empty space I'd have to say you have a cognitive distortion — Gregory
Name calling doesn't win debates. — Ryan O'Connor
I will tell him about your claim that infinities play no role in programs and see what HE has to say about that. — Gregory
The point-based view has reached its limit, it will never be able to solve Zeno's Paradox. — Ryan O'Connor
Name calling doesn't win debates. — Ryan O'Connor
I suspect it's the apostrophe...it's always given me computer problems. I've posted a comment in the 'Feedback' section, hopefully a moderator will allow me to change my name. — Ryan O'Connor
And third, dt is a differential form. They don't explain these in calculus so that's why everyone's confused about them. Bottom line is they aren't numbers and they can't be zero OR nonzero. — fishfry
But a process which is said to be potentially infinite, which will necessarily be terminated at some point, cannot truthfully be said to be potential infinite. — Metaphysician Undercover
You should try posting an unpopular opinion in the politics-related threads around here. Namecalling is all they've got. — fishfry
I pointed out that video is actually a sequence of stills... — fishfry
even a still captures motion because it records photons over a nonzero interval of time. — fishfry
So we're talking past each other. Perhaps we can find agreement at least in that. — fishfry
it's not the job of math to solve Zeno's paradoxes; and even if it is, it's not an interest of mine. I wish you the best with your efforts in that direction but I can't help. — fishfry
dt is a differential form. — fishfry
I'm not trying to solve the nature of the continuum here. — fishfry
You're throwing ideas out there that are philosophical and calling them science. — Gregory
What we know is what our senses say, yet you say our senses and the paradigms they are in are close to having ZERO accuracy. Why trust your use of measuring equipment then? We have no real understanding of what stuff looks like at the quantum level. — Gregory
But your solution to Zeno's paradox is that the quantum world doesn't exist unless we measure it. Which, well, is more paradoxical than what Zeno proved......And you are saying that there is nothing there at all unless we measure it. What kind of nonsense. — Gregory
But a process which is said to be potentially infinite, which will necessarily be terminated at some point, cannot truthfully be said to be potential infinite.
— Metaphysician Undercover
Care to edit this? I do not understand the last part. — tim wood
There is no problem. Mathematical analysis took care of that years ago. — jgill
Atalanta is walking from x=0 to x=1. What is the first non-zero coordinate that she walks to? I'd like to know how mathematical analysis solved this. — Ryan O'Connor
As long as we think that a line is composed of points we cannot answer this question. — Ryan O'Connor
Motion is only possible when she jumps from one point to another. — Ryan O'Connor
And what I'm saying is that she doesn't jump over infinite points, she jumps over a continuum — Ryan O'Connor
Ok. "Is said" seems gratuitous. π, I'm told, in decimal expansion never ends. To use it as a number, it's usually truncated at some point. That is just a number, nothing infinite about it at all, potential or otherwise. But why confuse the two? One stands in for the other to get an approximation. What is the issue about "potential" anything?But a process which is said to be potentially infinite, which will necessarily be terminated at some point, cannot truthfully be said to be potentially infinite. — Metaphysician Undercover
Ok. "Is said" seems gratuitous. π, I'm told, in decimal expansion never ends. To use it as a number, it's usually truncated at some point. That is just a number, nothing infinite about it at all, potential or otherwise. But why confuse the two? One stands in for the other to get an approximation. What is the issue about "potential" anything? — tim wood
"But a process which is said to be potentially infinite, cannot truthfully be said to be potentially infinite." Eh? Sure it can. Or do you mean that the never ending decimal expression of π actually ends? — tim wood
If we allow that the real line is made of points (which are just real numbers) then the answer is that there is no first nonzero positive real number. That is the answer, so your claim that "we cannot answer this question" is false. — fishfry
Now who's claiming a line is made of points? You are the one doing that! — fishfry
that doesn't entitle you to mischaracterize the math of the real numbers. There is no smallest positive real number. — fishfry
In your model of a continuum, whatever it is, is there a smallest real number? — fishfry
fishfry I'm trying to let you off the hook on talking to me about the nature of continua but you keep coming back for more. — Ryan O'Connor
I'm not complaining! — Ryan O'Connor
Exactly. And since there is no first nonzero positive real then she cannot take her first step. — Ryan O'Connor
Her journey doesn't begin. Motion is impossible. When I said that 'we cannot answer this question' I should have said 'we cannot answer this question satisfactorily.' — Ryan O'Connor
I suspect you would say that you see infinite points there. — Ryan O'Connor
I don't. In this picture I see 5 points, each connected by lines. That's it. WYSIWYG. — Ryan O'Connor
And if we relate this back to Atalanta's story, I would say that we have still photos of her at 0, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4, and 1. That's all we've got. We are not justified to say that at some time she was at 1/10 or at 7/8 because we don't have the photographs. At one moment we see her at 0, we blink, and when we open our eyes she's at 1/3. — Ryan O'Connor
Motion happens when we blink, when we are not looking. — Ryan O'Connor
And I've said it before but perhaps it might sink in this time that this is consistent with QM. — Ryan O'Connor
If we are continuously observing a quantum system it will not evolve. [/qute]
How do you continuously observe a quantum system? Nobody knows how to do that, you have a false antecedent.
— Ryan O'Connor
It will only evolve when it is not being observed. — Ryan O'Connor
Change happens when we blink. Not surprisingly, it's called the Quantum Zeno Effect. — Ryan O'Connor
Perhaps my point didn't come across. — Ryan O'Connor
All I was trying to say was that 'there is no smallest positive real number' means that Atalanta cannot decide what point to go to first. — Ryan O'Connor
In my view, we cannot speak of the 'completely measured continuum' which is what I would call 'the real number line'. We cannot do so because it would require infinite measurements and that's impossible. Instead, we must only speak of systems which we can actually look at (at least in principle), like the one above. And in that case, the smallest positive number is precisely 1/3. — Ryan O'Connor
"which will necessarily be terminated". — Metaphysician Undercover
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