• PH196
    6
    There is a dual nature to creation: the physical and the Spiritual. The physical creation is infinitesimal and mortal. The Spiritual creation is infinite and immortal. Before I get into the details of what differentiates these two creations we need to backtrack a bit and explain a bit of God’s cosmology, and the origin of what humans term ‘evil’.

    At some point, God evolved to one unique identity. This phenomenon came about by way of the mathematical argument that there is the infinite domain of God and all else is non-existence, what God is not. In Vulcan metaphysics, it is stated as, ‘nothing unreal exists.’ God is increasing at an infinite rate toward infinity, but we can regard that domain, which is a null domain, where God is not as the void into which God is expanding. Such an expansion requires infinite adaptability to express the infinite series of potentialities regarding the null void: What is God not? All that God is falls into that domain of the infinitely expanding identity of God. All that God is not falls into that null domain that God is expanding into.

    So God creates a second infinite, unique domain, and a necessary third domain appears to tie the two infinite domains of God and His new creation together such that there is overlap and not complete mutual exclusivity.

    A grade-school style Venn diagram can be used to visualize that the second unique infinite domain brings about the existence of a third domain if there is to be any relationship, including simple communication, between the two domains. Since domain A and domain B are infinite, then the overlap A ∩ B, must also therefore be infinite.

    Also, domain A ∩ B shares elements of both unique domains and therefore has a higher ‘density’ ration when considering the individual elements and characteristics that make up each of the two unique domains, A and B. Domain A ∩ B therefore can in all practical senses be considered in some ways superior, possessing elements and characteristics that either one domain may lack, alone. This phenomenon is the reason God created a second unique infinite domain. This is where the terms the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, come from. The Holy Spirit representing the overlap between domains A ∩ B; the Father and the Son.

    When you look up at the night sky and see the entire cosmos, you need to know that it is but one cosmos in a googolplex of universes just in this realm alone. In modern terms a ‘realm’ can be thought of as a Multiverse. Each Multiverse has a physical manifestation and its non-physical counterpart; its own Heaven, if you will, an infinite domain. As each physical Multiverse ages to extinction another is created, again, like the layers of an onion, and all life of the former realm exists then in the infinite domain of that Heaven.

    And that there are as may realms extending outward from the source of creation, like the layers of an onion, aeon after aeon, age after age, realm after realm, since God began building realms and cosmoses and sentient beings to explore that infinite question, ‘what is God not?’ This God does to expand into that infinite void, through us.

    The Venn diagram can be considered the very essence of all creation, the first domain of God in God’s creation, and also explains the mystery of the Son, whom appears in all of the religions of man in a multitude of names and expressed in means unique to each of those cultures. The mystery of what the Judaic cultures call the Holy Spirit lies in that area denoted by the overlap of the two unique domains.

    That is the core of the onion. At some point the phenomenon A ∩ B, meeting the requirements of an infinitely expanding system, must expand into a null void, what is God not? The first realm other than the unique infinite domains of God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is created. The first layer of the onion comes into being, a universe is created, or rather, a Multiverse, a realm, consisting of numerous subsets, a multitude of universes not at all like our universe in construct or purpose. This is the first of creation that can be denoted as, in summary, the Kingdom of God.

    A Multiverse is a system that contains countless universes tied together by a common foundation of space-time.

    In order to expand into this void, what is God not? A multitude of unique, infinite domains identical in construct to God must be created to explore the potentialities of this infinite question. The question is infinite; the domains that explore the infinite question must also therefore be infinite in scope and duration. These infinite domains are sentient life. Life is created; from every simple microscopic single celled organism to sentient beings fill this new domain. The sentient beings are those that are charged with answering, or rather, exploring the potentialities of the infinite question, what is God not? All of the other life forms down to the simplest single celled organisms are in roles that support the work of the Sentients. In this case, the Sentients are not humans, not yet. That realm, this realm in which we reside has not been created yet, and will be many layers further from the inner most domain where God resides.

    Each layer is a realm, a Multiverse, in common terms, containing a googolplex of universes and countless sentient beings. The outer layers are younger, the inner layers are more ancient, and the innermost layers are the most ancient of creation. In short, creation didn’t happen yesterday, certainly not 13.8 billion years ago. This realm and this cosmos are on the outermost layer of creation, the youngest; the frontier. There is no number large enough to put an actual age on the whole of creation. This realm is many trillions of years old, actually, something on the order of trillions of trillions. Our cosmos is not nearly as old as this realm (this Multiverse) that contains it.

    The inner domains, the inner layers of the onion are more ancient as they were created earlier. They no longer exist in physical form as they have already achieved heat death long ago. They only exist as infinite domains.

    The first realm, the first Multiverse, is so ancient that the place humans refer to as Heaven is many layers and domains of creation newer, younger, not to be confused with this innermost domain where God exists. That is, Heaven, for human beings, is part of the younger domains just as our physical cosmos is. Human Heaven is part of the outermost, youngest realm, not part of the cosmos, but not a physical part of the realm. The differentiation is in permanency. Physical cosmoses and realms are finite; they cease to exist at some point. Heavenly realms are infinite, they never cease to exist. That is, each realm, or layer, has its own ‘heaven,’ or infinite, non- corporeal domain. Eventually the corporeal face of a realm dies Heat Death, but the non- corporeal domain continues on for infinity. What we call ‘Heaven’ is one of such trillions of ‘heavens’ in the Kingdom of God. This is written in the Bible, especially the non-canonical book of Enoch, although such large numbers were not directly discussed. In the Vedas this is spoken of plainly.

    In biology, the term ‘self-regulating’ is used. When you create an entire cosmos for the purpose of creating darkness, what God not, you want a safety valve in place. A self-extinguishing, self- regulating cosmos that will cease to exist under its own volition and design is just such a mechanism. Therefore, ultimately Astrophysicists will discover that the cosmos is indeed self- regulating, and will cease to exist at some point.

    At this point, upon looking at the inner layers of the onion, the domain humans refer to as Heaven has not even been conceived of, not even by God. Countless thousands of such layers, such Kingdoms of God, will be created, like the layers of an onion, before our Heaven and Earth are even conceived of. Thus, there are countless realms in the Kingdom of God that are more ancient than that place humans call Heaven. What they call Heaven is still a young place, new. Some of this is explained in the Vedic literature. It is also described in the Bible, the Talmud, and other Holy texts. The next obvious question is, ‘who explained this to the humans who wrote the ancient Vedas? The answer is, the Avatars.

    Avatars, such as you and me, are beings from these more ancient domains that appear among younger sentient species to express and explain some of the guidelines for our existence.

    It’s really quite simple. The outer layers are younger, the inner layers of creation are more ancient. The inner layers are so old that they no longer exist in physical form, they have either recollapsed or experienced Heat Death or some other such thing, but their associated infinite domains (their Heaven) exist for infinity. As each layer of creation fulfills its task of exploring all of the potentialities of the infinite question, what is God not(?) that are possible within that domain, a newer, younger domain is then created more distant from God to explore yet further; God expands to fill that void. In so doing, God expands into that void. That is the reason we exist here. Eventually, this physical domain will cease to exist, and humans will exist in the Kingdom of God associated with their realm, and another realm will be created, and so on.

    Recapping: In order for God to fit the definition of Infinite, God must be infinitely expanding. Infinity has no endpoint. In order for God to expand, He must expand into a null domain. The null domain can be expressed by the term, what is God not?

    In each realm, or Multiverse, as you will, the null domain what is God not is explored to exhaustion. This process can take googols of years for any given realm. At this point, the realm is exhausted as a null domain, and as a void for God to expand into. For all practical purposes, the sentient beings that occupy such a realm become gods by human standards, made of the same stuff as God, created in God’s image, and now knowing all things of good and evil, become omniscient, even omnipotent as their technology allows them.

    In order to explore the potentialities of that question, God creates another unique, yet finite domain we would refer to as a Multiverse, or realm, as you will.

    This Multiverse is the foundation for countless Universes, each with a unique set of properties embedded within the greater domain of this Multiverse. Just think of bubbles in water. The bubbles are universes embedded within the Multiverse of the water. Oversimplified, but expresses the idea without error.

    This Multiverse and all of its subset universes must then be filled with life. Some life is sentient, the other life supports the role of the sentient beings as they explore the infinite question, what is God not? In perspective, humans, for instance, are not the only sentient life on Earth. The fallacy of inaccurately thinking so is part of our failed makeup that defines our stupidity, a feature of what is God not. Stupidity, evil, violence, commerce, pollution, sex, drugs, starvation, disease, suffering, desperation, powerlessness, limited... War. What is God not?

    There is the physical, finite domain of this physical cosmos, and another domain we refer to as our Heaven, and the overlap between the two domains is us.

    Technically, we reside in both domains simultaneously. We are infinite beings, identical in construct to God, intentionally and temporarily limited for the purpose of exploring the infinite question, what is God not? In that exploration, we create evil, disease, war, death, suffering, and so on, because that is what God is not.

    So what exactly is this place, how was it created, and what is the origin of Evil? First off, you do not need to be a Christian to believe anything I say, as ‘belief’ is in fact a cognitive process that does not effect the structure of reality. My ideas here are bit more speculative, but the overarching themes are consistent.

    A long, long looong time ago, in the first order of creation — that first ancient ‘layer of the onion’ so to speak, there existed a creation of Spirit (sentient) beings who you can regard as those first infinite domains other than God that were created. In terms humans might understand: imagine you are God and you got bored, you know you are awesome, but there is a nagging question in your mind: I know what I am, so, logically, I want to know what I am not.

    God approached one of his highest angels, whom we will simply agree is called Lucifer for the time being, and charged him with the highest command; create a new concept, a new realm to explore such that God (I) can expand, what is God not? Lucifer, being the among the most intelligent of his race, created (invented) war; he rallied his people and warred against the entire realm of Heaven, then created a domain where God is not –Hell. He fulfilled his command with a completely unique and new layer to add to the Kingdom of God. His influence overlaps with all sentient beings in this Multiverse – filled with unique finite universes, each universe filled with countless trillions of sentient beings, all exploring the infinite question, what is God not? All influenced by Lucifer. Lucifer can be thought of as the director of this place. That is why those who mimic him are rewarded in this physical world, rewarded with money, women, power, and so on. That is the answer to an age-old question.

    This Multiverse, filled with countless universes, each universe filled with countless trillions of sentient beings, is on the very outermost edge of God’s existence. The description above is of Lucifer’s actions in an angelic realm of the first creation, a googolplex of realms prior to this one. Thus, the name Lucifer is merely a

    model. Nevertheless, he whom we will agree will go by the name Lucifer, for lack of a better word, created, invented, conceived of the first darkness beyond God’s reach and understanding, war, hatred, territorialism. Again, this occurred in the first realm of creation.

    We, a googolplex of realms, countless trillions of eons later, have inherited this model. We have of course expanded on this model and invented entirely new ones in ways our ancestors in the former realms could never have conceived of, else we would not have need been created.
  • Jack Cummins
    5.3k

    I am replying to your post because even if you speak of God you don't seem like a fundamentalist religious type. I am also writing because I have an interest in the whole exploration of the nature of consciousness and take an interest in many perspectives, ranging from Taoism, Jung and I definitely reject hard deterministic views of life. I am particularly interested in Jung's idea on evil within the human psyche. I do believe that many ideas within religion arise symbolically, and I am thinking that you are maybe coming from an esoteric approach.

    Welcome to the forum, and I hope that you get some interesting responses, because from reading what you have written it doesn't seem like you are out to preach, and it seems that you have put some thought into what you have written. Before finishing, I would just be interested to know what thinkers influence you.
  • PH196
    6
    Influences? Aristotle, Plato, Buddha, Leibniz among others.
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    There is a dual nature to creation: the physical and the Spiritual.PH196

    This is far from agreed upon. There are nondualists, for instance. There are those (including some physicists) who believe that everything is consciousness and matter is an illusion.

    So what exactly is this place, how was it created, and what is the origin of Evil?PH196

    I don't accept that 'evil' is a thing - it's an umbrella word to describe a vast range of different phenomenon with not a lot in common - so it cannot have an origin in my worldview.

    Can you define what the category 'evil' is and how items given this word are connected and thereby the product of a given cause?
  • PH196
    6

    God = infinite Love
    Evil = absence of Love

    I don't accept that 'evil' as a thing - it's an umbrella word to describe a vast range of different phenomenon with not a lot in common - so it cannot have an origin in my worldview.
    I agree that the definition is subject to individual interpretation, but in a broad sense the above definition is satisfactory in the context of this post. Evil is the absence of God i.e. what God is not.

    .This is far from agreed upon. There are nondualists, for instance. There are those (including some physicists) who believe that everything is consciousness and matter is an illusion.

    I'm not sure how this is at odds with the heaven/earth model of existence. The physical domains (matter) can still be considered to be a construct of consciousness.
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    God = infinite Love
    Evil = absence of Love
    PH196

    Those are just words stuck together. We can't even define what love is, let alone the 'infinite' variety and the 'absence of love' does not bring with it necessary negative or destructive associations. A person who helps other people out of a sense of duty may be completely without love for the people they are helping.

    'm not sure how this is at odds with the heaven/earth model of existence. The physical domains (matter) can still be considered to be a construct of consciousness.PH196

    Matter being an illusion is not a separate category with identifiable characteristic - there is only consciousness. But hey, I am not a believer in this, I am simply saying that some claims are not easily made and we can't agree on them.

    I don't think you can move on to explaining evil until you can define if it exists and in what way.
  • PH196
    6


    define the word 'define'
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    define the word 'define'

    Before you get into describing elaborate cosmologies and foundation myths it would be helpful if you provided an account of evil and how you know it exists. All I can see under what some people label as 'evil' is a range of different events or categories that do not share many or any characteristics.

    A church roof falls in and kills 50 people in the congregation. Evil? How so?
    Pol Pot. Evil? How so?
    A man steals the life savings of a pensioner who ends up homeless. Evil? How so?
  • PH196
    6


    I just asked you to define the word define. What is so hard about that?

    Why can't I use the bible as a reference for the origin of evil? I think you are conflating 'scientific rationalism' with philosophy.

    You have a straightforward response for the question of evil, where it came from:

    The Devil--Satan—one of God’s highest angels--rebelled against God's spiritual universe and spiritual laws which govern and regulate it--and became the Fallen Angel. This fallen angel violated God's laws and partook of darkness, rather than light. Hence the quote (Christ) "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

    The heavenly domains (eden) are the manifestation of God’s mind, and reflect life. The biblical ‘fall of man’ is the spiritual man becoming conscious of the physical man, and knowing the difference between the two. That is, the man made in God’s image yielded to the minds of the fallen angels, and mortal propagation is the result.

    Evil (the mind of lust) cannot produce good fruit, that is why the mortal dies. This material universe was 'manifested' as a consequence of Lucifer's rebellion against God. This entire finite multiverse is God manifesting the opposite of himself -- the mortal concept -- as the result of their transgression. 

    This is essentially the dual nature of all existence.

    Spiritual life is Internal—physical life is external. Spiritual life is a reality—the Truth—and exists in the divine mind. So-called physical life is error and is unreal to the divine mind and only exists in the mind of the senses of the mortal creation. Spiritual life as manifested in physical life is the reflection and the image of God, the Reality of Spirit; all spiritual life, as manifested in physical life, is derived from Spirit. There is not any inherent life in matter.

    As the conception of evil fades out of the consciousness of the minds of the beings created in God’s image, then the ‘physical’ counterpart of the realm ceases to exist - God has filled that void.

    The ‘void’ is simply the consciousness of the unreal (mortal) creation, in its myriad of forms. The mortal creation in its natural state is unconscious of God. And the immortal creation in its natural state is unconscious of the mortal creation (death). One is real, the other is unreal. One is infinite, the other is finite.

    That is, the mortal creation was not spiritually conceived by God. The mortal creation is conceived through the law of lust. The spiritual 'man' is conceived by God, 'constructed' of the same stuff - pure and unconditional love.This is the correct interpretation of the biblical 'garden of eden' story where man was ordered not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest he should die.

    Death (the mortal creation) is the absence of God's mind in the consciousness of the soul.

    Perhaps what I am stating is part myth and embellishment, after all, the scripture never stated what the war between Michael and Lucifer was, it just jumps right in “and war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought, and prevailed not…”

    The fallen angels rebelled against God's spiritual kingdom before the material universe was created, and the material creation and carnal man represents the power of that rebellion. That is why you do not understanding jack squat of anything spiritual -- you think with a carnal physical brain.

    Now go ahead and befuddle me with your infinite cognitive non-sequiturs, I'll be waiting.
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    No go ahead and befuddle me with your infinite cognitive non-sequiturs, I'll be waiting.PH196

    I don't think we have enough common ground to continue a discussion. Why would we accept claims in the Bible over, say, the Upanishads?

    I think you are conflating 'scientific rationalism' with philosophy.PH196

    You seem to be conflating literalist religion with philosophy.

    Which you are welcome to do. I just didn't realize from your first post that this was where you were heading. Take care.
  • PH196
    6


    Care to comment on the rest of my post? Care to present an alternative explanation?

    I didn't think so.

    But in any case i should also explain your aversion to discussing anything pertaining to God and/or spirituality:

    The parable of the wheat and the tares explains this concept well:

    “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

    There are two types of beings on this planet. There are what I call the organic portals who are mortal souls, that is, they have no spiritual component. Then there are the immortal souls which is who Christ was addressing. The tares resemble wheat in the physical sense, in the same way a homo sapien resembles a human. The Wheat are Spirit beings incarnate in mortal form. The tares are genetic monkey dna scaffolds with no spirit present.

    According to your own scientific darwinian rationalism, you ARE quite literally inert genetic monkey trash, living on a speck of dust floating through a void. THAT IS YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENT.
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