Thrasymachus argued to Socrates argued, roughly, that might makes right (Republic). From which view Socrates led him into confusion. Maslow the psychologist of self-actualization. These all googleable.

I'm a moron when it comes to virology. Did you figure out a cure on your own or maybe you relied on someone else? — Hanover

I can tell. Educate yourself. Read about it. It's not that complicated. If you had a serious lung condition, do you think you might make some time to educate yourself?

And yes, I do what I can to take care of myself, daily exercise, eating property, taking care of myself mentally/spiritually. I do what I can. How about you?

They don't have to be my friends any more than those who fix my car have to be friends. I'm smart enough to respect the limits of my knowledge. This also handily saves me from mastering every discipline in the world in search of some mythical level of self-sufficiency.

In that sense they are unweaned. — NOS4A2

But you're weaned, indeed you are, nos4. You're a walking reaction formation.

I can tell. Educate yourself. Read about it. It's not that complicated — synthesis

Hanover is indeed a dummy. He totally misdiagnosed my STD. Although maybe he did that on purpose... Hm.

I realize that but I shy away from people who like to give homework (even if it for extra credit!).

I just try to do what makes sense to me. And taking responsibility for myself, educating myself, and keeping myself in the best condition possible seems to be the way to go.

I can tell. Educate yourself. Read about it. It's not that complicated — synthesis

I can tell that you've probably not taken a single course in virology and I wouldn't rely upon your knowledge on the subject, regardless of how many hours you spent Googling.

And yes, I do what I can to take care of myself, daily exercise, eating property, taking care of myself mentally/spiritually. I do what I can. How about you? — synthesis

You're asking me what I ate for dinner and my exercise routine? Good questions. That'll get to the bottom of this.

Hanover is indeed a dummy. He totally misdiagnosed my STD. — Baden

I just assumed it was the same as mine.

All power works its magic by creating dependency. It never hurts to know everything you can. Then (at least) you have some kind of clue what going on if you need to rely on another with a higher skill level.

It's not the 1950's anymore when the majority of people were pretty honest.

I just try to do what makes sense to me. And taking responsibility for myself, educating myself, and keeping myself in the best condition possible seems to be the way to go. — synthesis

"Taking responsibility" is more than just a phrase or a stance. It is a commitment - an aspiration - to a standard of knowledge. Ignorantly "taking responsibility" is exactly not taking responsibility, but is instead a mistake or an excuse or both for not taking responsibility.

Example. taking responsibility for the health and well-being of a child requires both knowledge and actions based thereon. Lacking those, "taking responsibility" is just an empty phrase which means exactly that responsibility was not taken.

I can tell that you've probably not taken a single course in virology and I wouldn't rely upon your knowledge on the subject, regardless of how many hours you spent Googling. — Hanover

I've been a practicing physician for forty years. I've seen tens of thousands of patients. I know what people are capable of and it's a lot more than you are willing to do. I am telling you from experience that you have to take responsibility for yourself. Don't ever assume that anybody in this health care system is acting in your interests. I know that sounds bleak, and there are some great people who work within the system, but it is what it is.

It never hurts to know everything you can. — synthesis

Good point. Right now, I'm researching PES (Pecker Ego Syndrome). An interesting condition that results in unabashed and unjustifiable levels of self-confidence.

It's not the 1950's anymore when the majority of people were pretty honest. — synthesis

My memories of pre-birth eras are pretty fuzzy. But there's another opportunity to learn from you, I guess.

Example. taking responsibility for the health and well-being of a child requires both knowledge and actions based thereon. Lacking those, "taking responsibility" is just an empty phrase which means exactly that responsibility was not taken. — tim wood

People have been brainwashed to believe that they are incapable of doing these things but it is not true. I have had patients that have been incredibly well-educated in their particular issues. Medicine is not that difficult to get a reasonable handle on. It is imperative that everybody do this because if you're depending on your corporate/government people to do this for you, you're SOL.

Don't ever assume that anybody in this health care system is acting in your interests. — synthesis

It doesn't follow that they're actively trying to harm me. Or that I need to learn their job in order to analyze every bit of advice they give me. Scepticism isn't always justified or helpful and maximalism in the area is likely downright unhealthy if not practically impossible.

Good point. Right now, I'm researching PES (Pecker Ego Syndrome). An interesting condition that results in unabashed and unjustifiable levels if self-confidence. — Baden

Your choice. Spend your time as you wish. You will get out of life exactly what you put into it.

Your arguments are categorically unsound. In particular not distinguishing between some and all. Confusion on that is ultimately crippling to good thought.

It doesn't follow that they're actively trying to harm me. Or that I need to learn their job in order to analyze every bit of advice they give me. Skepticism isn't always justified or helpful and maximalism in the area is likely downright unhealthy if not practically impossible. — Baden

I've been in the health care system for the last forty years and your what? I am not telling you anything I haven't told my patients since the 90's. Do what you want. It's your life. After all, who would believe that educating yourself about something like your own health would be such a great idea, anyway?

Really? Either take responsibility for yourself or suffer the consequences. I hope you always have doctors that act in your interests and guess what the best course of action is, but the best outcomes are almost always those where the patient is involved because there are almost always options. Of course, if you are ignorant, then you get what you get (probably the most expensive Tx).

No-one's arguing against self-education in general. We're all for that. We are arguing though against maximalist scepticism of the naive and impractical species you're advocating*. It's precisely because I have educated myself on many areas including the way the virus works that I know your position is at best silly and at worst utterly nonsensical.

*What distinguishes your line of argument from that of anti-vaxxers and other anti-scientific kooks, for example?

a) It is not possible to be an expert in everything
b) "Taking care of yourself" does not offer you or others immunity from COVID.
c) The unchecked spread of COVID would have had devastating health, social, and economic consequences (don't believe me, educate yourself).

Sure, reasonable, no disagreement. But your manner of expression makes these categorical, and they're not. So the error of your expression has to be scraped off of the truth and reasonableness they conceal, like barnacles off a hull, a few of which not an issue, but that become destructive of function when many.

I've been a practicing physician for forty years. I've seen tens of thousands of patients. I know what people are capable of and it's a lot more than you are willing to do. I am telling you from experience that you have to take responsibility for yourself. Don't ever assume that anybody in this health care system is acting in your interests. I know that sounds bleak, and there are some great people who work within the system, but it is what it is. — synthesis

Alright, I won't assume you're acting in my interests. It's an odd request, but be that as it is.

Your overarching argument, as far as I can tell, is that you don't believe anyone can rely upon anyone else, so we're all in this by ourselves. Should I take your advice and bring in my reams of printed out wiki articles to my next doctor's appointment, I will be faced with the realization (assuming I'm one of the educated masses) that I can neither trust my doctor nor the wiki articles I've brought in because we've posited that reliance upon anyone other than ourselves is folly. My point being that reliance upon my own web based research is not self-reliance, but it's reliance upon the author of the documents I'm reading. It makes no more sense to trust one source than the other as you've noted, so I need to find me some test tubes and do the research myself. My methods and practices must of course be self-created because, God forbid, I might read how others have researched in the past and be manipulated by them into adopting their methodologies.

What does this all mean? It means we all commonly rely upon the expertise of others, largely to our benefit, and recommending that we rely upon own personal novice opinions for serious matters due to a paranoid fear the world is conspiring against you, is irresponsible and irrational.

People have been brainwashed to believe that they are incapable of doing these things but it is not true. I have had patients that have been incredibly well-educated in their particular issues. Medicine is not that difficult to get a reasonable handle on. It is imperative that everybody do this because if you're depending on your corporate/government people to do this for you, you're SOL. — synthesis

Your cynicism can be commiserated with, and your maxims too; your reductionist assertions, however, not.

No-one's arguing against self-education in general. We're all for that. We are arguing though against maximalist scepticism of the naive and impractical species you're advocating. It's precisely because I have educated myself on many areas including the way the virus works that I know your position is at best silly and at worst utterly nonsensical. — Baden

And what exactly am I advocating?

Look, either you get what I am saying or you don't.

This is not that difficult to understand.

What does this all mean? It means we all commonly rely upon the expertise of others, largely to our benefit, and recommending that we rely upon own personal novice opinions for serious matters due to a paranoid fear they're conspiring against you, is irresponsible and irrational. — Hanover

You guys are in for a BIG surprise when you get out into the real world.

It's not the 1950's anymore when the majority of people were pretty honest. — synthesis

I thought the 1950s were the years of 'mindless conformity'!

I thought the 1950s were the years of 'mindless conformity'! — Bitter Crank

For some, for sure.

Ok, so we reject expert opinion and learn it all ourselves. Who do you think we learn from if not experts? Who do you think write medical books and papers, for example, if not medical experts? (often the same ones guiding government policy). In order to cease our reliance on experts, we'd have to get into some fairly kinky experimentation on ourselves and others, and, in my experience, that is not always appreciated. In short, your position appears not just impractical, but essentially incoherent.

*Damn, Hanover said this already. Note to self: read Hanover's posts even though you don't want to.

And what exactly am I advocating? — synthesis

My intepretation of your position is pretty much as @Hanover outlined it. If it's more nuanced than that, feel free to clarify.