Therefore, Can we really be sure that the mind needs the world in order to exist? — GreyScorpio
I agree, for us to remain alive we must keep sustained and we can only do so by using the world as a wall to lean on. — GreyScorpio
However, I don't know if there would be a break, I would just say that there is a evident change in the wall. — GreyScorpio
If the world depends on the mind, and the mind depends on the world, which came first? — Agustino
PS: Your picture/gif mysteriously disappeared — Agustino
I disagree, The mind cannot be housed in the world, if we assume that everything that we experience are just ideas. You can't have something 'real' be a product of an idea that is passive in our own minds, could you? — GreyScorpio
for us to remain alive we must keep sustained and we can only do so by using the world as a wall to lean on. — GreyScorpio
So then you suggest they arise together (à la Buddhist interdependent origination)? How is this possible?Neither. — Heister Eggcart
If you continue reading on you will realise that my argument was to remove the wall (world) and support the fact that there are just minds and there cannot be a wall for us to lean on because we wouldn't need one.What sustains us? The wall? What sustains the wall?
So then you suggest they arise together (à la Buddhist interdependent origination)? How is this possible? — Agustino
If you continue reading on you will realise that my argument was to remove the wall (world) and support the fact that there are just minds and there cannot be a wall for us to lean on because we wouldn't need one. — GreyScorpio
What are you having trouble with? — GreyScorpio
Surely but that does nothing except postulate a first cause. For example... A and B mutually depend on each other and constitute the world. That means that A and B - taken together - are the first cause. Indeed you'd end up with one substance and two attributes, à la Spinoza ;)I'm not sold on going down the rabbit hole of there being a first cause, which seems too linear a causal chain. Infinite regression becomes a logical problem then, in my understanding. — Heister Eggcart
That is indeed interesting, I believe that the world does indeed need the mind to exist - giving that we all have a representation of it that we cannot really distinguish between that of the "real world" - but does the mind really need the world to exist? Assume that we were just minds, how would we know of our surroundings if we aren't aware of ourselves prior to us being able to figure out that we can think, feel, hope and fear. Without our physical representation of our bodies, the mind and the world. Therefore, Can we really be sure that the mind needs the world in order to exist? — GreyScorpio
Surely but that does nothing except postulate a first cause. For example... A and B mutually depend on each other and constitute the world. That means that A and B - taken together - are the first cause. Indeed you'd end up with one substance and two attributes, à la Spinoza — Agustino
A and B taken together have no cause. Whatever reality you imagine - say you imagine that mind depends on world and world depends on mind - in that case all you're saying is that there's an A and a B which taken together form the first cause - like two sides of one coin. It could also be A and B and C and... The first cause is inescapable.Erm, no I don't think so. What are you suggesting is the cause of A and B taken together? And tell me what A and B are, or at least what you think I find them to be. — Heister Eggcart
Why must there be material things. — GreyScorpio
There is no need for material substance to formulate ideas. — GreyScorpio
Why wouldn't there be a distinction between minds and the world? — GreyScorpio
The mind is something inexplicable to the human. We can't concieve of the mind, nor can we experience it. However we can be certain that they exist as we are able to think, feel and fear. — GreyScorpio
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.