introduce sugar tax — Jack Cummins

How can you have a tea party without sugar? It's time the Britons threw their own selves over.

I said "Most" healthcare systems, not all. I don't even know your system... are you located in Zimbabwe, or in Rwanda-Burundi?

What could be more oppressive than a government system?
— synthesis

Corporate power. — Tom Storm

Corporate power is derived from governments. Look at what governments did over something like COVID. Just about shut-down the world.

What could be more oppressive than a government system?
— synthesis

- religious systems
- evangelistic religions
- your father
- your Father
- your torturer at Quantanimo bay
- jails and prisons
- sadistic nurses and orderlies
- your big brother
- your big sister
- your husband
- your wife
- your aunt who controls the family wealth
- your five-year old angel of a grandson
- neighbourhood dogs
- coyotes and wolves
- lions and tigers
- Hepatitis C
- Sex maniac wife
- oxidization
- the call of the devil
- temptation
- extreme hunger
- extreme thirst
- mad Kohn, the sohn of that ganef Shlomo
- KKK
- Parish priests over altar boys
- coaches of all kinds
- life
- the third law of thermodynamics
- the music of Richard Wagner
- yourself — god must be atheist

Go tell that to the 100M people murdered by the Communist/Socialist governments in the 20th century.

Go tell that to the 100M people murdered by the Communist/Socialist governments in the 20th century. — synthesis

How do you reconcile the fact that the US is about the only developed nation without socialized healthcare and yet the US government pays far more than any other nation, and with no better healthcare outcomes.

Even if a medical expert knows 100% of the clinical information necessary to render a decision, it does not mean that they know your situation, and this is often THE most important part of the puzzle — synthesis

True. You really need to be your own advocate. But if your doctor isn't able to help you, you should keep looking. Somebody out there might know how to help.

It's hard to stay optimistic, but the people who do are more likely to find the right expert.

How do you reconcile the fact that the US is about the only developed nation without socialized healthcare and yet the US government pays far more than any other nation, and with no better healthcare outcomes. — praxis

Corporatism and massive corruption on every level.

True. You really need to be your own advocate. But if your doctor isn't able to help you, you should keep looking. Somebody out there might know how to help.

It's hard to stay optimistic, but the people who do are more likely to find the right expert. — frank

Let's say you go the THE best doctor in the world. Is that enough? I say no (and I should know).

What I am saying is that the patient can (and should) play a critical part in their care. The more you know and the better you can inform your caregivers, the better care you are going to get.

It's like everything else in life, you do the minimum, you get the minimum in return.

How do you reconcile the fact that the US is about the only developed nation without socialized healthcare and yet the US government pays far more than any other nation, and with no better healthcare outcomes.
— praxis

Corporatism and massive corruption on every level. — synthesis

The whole point of socialism is to protect the working class from corporations and the like.

Let's say you go the THE best doctor in the world. Is that enough? I say no (and I should know). — synthesis

The guy who knows the Epley maneuver probably doesn't know how to weild a gamma knife. The guy who can fix your kid's heart probably doesn't know the signs of excessive copper. Sometimes you need an expert.

But yes, as I said, you need to be your own advocate. That means learning.

You know nothing about socialist countries of the twentieth century, other than your state-fed arbitrary propaganda.

I am not denying that those states had oppressive regimes. But you discount the systems that they had grown out of. In the great depression most western countries in Europe had a horrible life for the common man. In the industrial upheaval in around the late nineteenth century, and early twentieth century, people literally worked themselves to death due to starvation, sickness (c.f. present day health care systems!!!), and bloody-handed treatment by police if organized resistance was suspected.

Those systems made people really look to communism, and in Russia the socialist revolution wouldn't have won, but it had the support of the people, because in those years their only hope of a decent life was via communist rule.

So... Stalin killed 30 million, Lenin... well, Lenin had to contend with the invading armies of foreign powers so his "killing" is not really directly oppression-related. In my country maybe 1000-5000 people died due to political reasons in the communist times. I don't have exact figures, because I went to school there in the sixties, and the curriculum did not cover that. Whether Stalin killed those thirty million was due to design, or due to a huge crop failure in consecutive years, is debatable. Mostly Ukranians died, and they did because the food that was very scarce was given to ethnic Russians. I admit, there were politically induced murders, everyone read the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenyitsin. Most of those oppressed, be they eventually murdered or not, were not punished due to the regime, but due to the paranoia and madness of Stalin. He was worse than Hitler; he killed due to his paranoia, much like Nero and Caligula, not due to some evil political idealism, like Hitler.

But the oppression by governments in Eastern Europe was still a system that provided a heavenly existence to the largest segment of the population IN COMPARISON with the pre-war and turn-of the century conditions. They did not drive cars like people in America in the sixties, they did not have colour tvs like Germans in the seventies, they did not own property like anyone could in the west in the eighties, but they had food, clothing, transportation, all affordable, and free schooling and free HEALTHCARE. None of that was enjoyed by the great majority of the peoples of those countries before the communist takeover.

Even if a medical expert knows 100% of the clinical information necessary to render a decision, it does not mean that they know your situation, and this is often THE most important part of the puzzle
— synthesis

True. You really need to be your own advocate. But if your doctor isn't able to help you, you should keep looking. Somebody out there might know how to help.

It's hard to stay optimistic, but the people who do are more likely to find the right expert. — frank

Sometimes the answer or the treatment or cure is not found, by a practitioner, and also by the patient, because it does not exist in present day knowledge.

I often wondered why doctors don't address some of the issues I raise to them, and I learnt over time that they don't because either the issue is not a matter of their scrutiny, or else because the scrutiny has not found a treatment.

Doctors are not gods. Patients are not doctors.

In fact, my cardiologist friend tells me what everyone knows: most people are not getting better, due entirely to their not taking their doctors' instructions. This is is beyond "educate yourself" or "be your own advocate". it is a matter of laziness, conspiracy tales trickle down effect, religious intolerance against treatment, or which is the majority, a lack of insight to know the patient needs to adhere to treatment.

Located in Canada. Our system "works" as long as no one thinks about the long game, no one considers the bill attached to keeping it going, and no one, ever, calls that bill in. Then sure, it works. Rather like a line of credit, keeps allowing you to get stuff you can't afford, until you have to pay it off. Then you sell the house, go bankrupt, and live in the streets. All because no one stopped to say "hey, can we afford to spend like this?"

I have always maintained that if a person won't follow the professional's advice then the person should at least not waste said professionals time and just leave them alone. Don't listen to your doctor. Having said that, don't go see your doctor in the first place, let someone who will follow advice go instead.

WAIT....you mean the shutdown was poorly thought out? BAH HA HA HA!!!!

No really it will work this time....HA HA HA HA!!!!

You know nothing about socialist countries of the twentieth century, other than your state-fed arbitrary propaganda. — god must be atheist

Justify mass slaughter any way you like. People have been doing it forever.

I often wondered why doctors don't address some of the issues I raise to them, and I learnt over time that they don't because either the issue is not a matter of their scrutiny, or else because the scrutiny has not found a treatment. — god must be atheist

Next time you go to your doctor, preface your observations/comments by telling him/her that you know everything. That should resolve your issues with your care providers once and for all.

In fact, my cardiologist friend tells me what everyone knows: most people are not getting better, due entirely to their not taking their doctors' instructions. This is is beyond "educate yourself" or "be your own advocate". it is a matter of laziness, conspiracy tales trickle down effect, religious intolerance against treatment, or which is the majority, a lack of insight to know the patient needs to adhere to treatment. — god must be atheist

Here's the take-home message. Once people form poor life habits, it is difficult if not impossible to change their ways, so the emphasis should be on education when people are young and throughout their schooling. The importance of eating well, exercise, and other positive life practices should be a priority, as well.

Once people develop chronic conditions, it's late in the game.

Our system "works" as long as no one thinks about the long game, no one considers the bill attached to keeping it going, and no one, ever, calls that bill in. Then sure, it works. — Book273

That's why governments own printing presses. And that is not an attempt at a joke, but merely pointing out that how your and my private economies work is not only not how governments work, but also not how governments should work.

I have always maintained that if a person won't follow the professional's advice then the person should at least not waste said professionals time and just leave them alone. — Book273

I hope you are not talking about me, as this does not apply to me.

But I did notice that those who don't follow doctors' advice are not prone to going to doctors. They have their own theories: "You only get sick in the hospital. I'll never go to a hospital. Remember uncle Fred? He went to the hospital just once, and he died there. Stay out of the place." Some people don't even take a pain pill, because they don't want to mess up their own body chemistry. Some people reduce their life-saving medication for a chronic ailment, weaning themselves off, as if it were an addictive therapy.

However, I will not say those people should be barred from visiting doctors for advice. Yes, they can stay away on their own volition, but society ought not to punish them for being blockheads.

Here's the take-home message. Once people form poor life habits, it is difficult if not impossible to change their ways, so the emphasis should be on education when people are young and throughout their schooling. The importance of eating well, exercise, and other positive life practices should be a priority, as well.

Once people develop chronic conditions, it's late in the game. — synthesis

I agree with this. However, education can only be carried so far. In my old country the emphasis is on scientific education, right in grade school, and every student needs and must take all the subjects. So they all take math, biology, chemistry, etc. as well as literature, history and phys. ed. Heck, they even must take art and drawing.

And guess what: people in my old country have vocal advocates of no mask, of public gatherings, of antivaxxing, etc. The percentage change is not different.

One more example. On a public tv show a famous (in that country) humorist celebrity pretended to be a stranger to the city. A film crew was recording this, I guess hidden from the passers-by. Everyone tried to help him with directions. Then he said, "hold on, I've got a map," and he pulled out a SEWING PATTERN. obviously it was full of random-looking lines, and dotted curves, etc, and people showed him, "You see, you are here," and they put their finger at a point, "and you go this way, then turn left," etc.

These were people with public education.

People can't all be taught. No matter what you try, and it's not only the insane or the intellectually challenged that can't be made to know. In my estimate anyone with high school education in North America and an IQ less than 120 retains less than one percent of their once-known subject material. They know how to add or subtract, but they can't divide a polynomial into another one, and they can't find the lowest common multiplier of 6 and 12. They know of the capital of Holland that it's H, and that French eat frogs. Everyone knows who Hitler was, but not many know the major achievement of pres. Jefferson. (I don't either.) Nobody knows who Adenauer was, and nobody can name the first woman in space.

Therefore my only addition to your opinion would be to have ONGOING mandatory education (academic) for adults. We know how to add and subtract because we practice it every day. We don't know why abiogenesis is possible, because the chemistry is long forgotten.

Then we'll be spending public money what we save on an educated patient clientele, on the education of the clientele.

In my opinion you can't win.

But the oppression by governments in Eastern Europe was still a system that provided a heavenly existence to the largest segment of the population IN COMPARISON with the pre-war and turn-of the century conditions. — god must be atheist

?

The Czechs didn't have it so bad. And the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't so backward as let's say Russia. What I remember is that the country (Czechoslovakia) was a democracy and a prosperous industrialized country after it's independence. And they did have cars, they even made them back then. Tanks too! And my country's southern neighbor Estonia would likely be far more wealthier than my country today if they wouldn't have "joined" the Workers Paradise. It's catching up very quickly.

Next time you go to your doctor, preface your observations/comments by telling him/her that you know everything. That should resolve your issues with your care providers once and for all. — synthesis

You are angry for no reason. I stated that doctors don't know everything, and I stated how they handle situations when they don't know the answer to a concern. IT DOES NOT MEAN I DO KNOW. Furthermore, there is no disrespect intended, because I DON'T EXPECT DOCTORS TO KNOW EVERYTHING.

Your advice is insulting, which is accepted on these forums, but please think back and try to see that I was not insulting the profession, I was just illuminating the standard. I have no bitterness for that, and if you got that out of my post, that I was bitter and disparaging, maybe it's your expectation that people are disrespectful in this aspect. Well, I am not, and I hope I did not write anything that would have insinuated that I am disrespectful.

Yes, what today is the Czech Republic, was the industrial hub of the Monarchy. Yes, they made the car Tatra. They made another car, forgot the name, even before the second world war. When Hitler ordered the engineers to build a people's car, the Volkswagen, the engineers were unable to design an engine for that car-- they simply stole the idea of the Czech-made car. After the war, for decades the replacement parts of Tatra (or another one), and the Volkswagen were completely exchangeable.

The Czechs, and to a lesser degree, the Slovaks, prospered during communist times, but there was strong oppression... why else the "communism with a friendly face" movement in 1968 that brought in the Russian occupation.

Czechoslovakia was as much a democratic country as all other satellite countries of the USSR. They had a one-party system.

. They made another car, forgot the name, even before the second world war. — god must be atheist

I think nearly all, if not all, of those car manufacturers above listed manufactured cars prior to WW2 with Skoda being the most famous...a rare car in that it was exported to the West during the Cold War. But anyway.

Many times people do bring up Czechoslovakia or East-Germany as "the better" examples, yet it is quite obvious how much better things would have been if it hadn't been for the Soviet system of marxism-leninism. The fact that we had West- and East-Germany and today still have North- and South Korea and China and Taiwan make the obvious comparison that shows what works and what doesn't.

The fact is that now we have a young generation for whom the Soviet era and it's authoritarian system is forgotten history, hence the same rhetoric used during the Cold War can be recycled from the past. With ignorance of the reality a romantic picture can be painted, which doesn't make it look so bad, but rather interesting. As of course, not all socialist regimes were like the Red Khmer in Cambodia. And history in the West doesn't bother to look critically at the system during the Soviet era. It's not a trendy subject.

In my opinion you can't win. — god must be atheist

It's not about winning. Instead, it's about giving people the freedom and responsibility to make the best life possible for themselves and their families.

You can't say that we have this group over here that is lazy and just wants to get by doing the minimum (or less) and have them penalize the rest. This is what socialism does, plays to the least motivated. You want you society to be just the opposite, strive to the highest levels, but at the same time putting in place better functioning checks and balances.

Of course, those will eventually corrupt (as do all social institutions), so you put all the pieces back in the box-top and play a new game. That's what we're in the process of doing now.

You are angry for no reason. — god must be atheist

Why would I be angry? Do you believe you have that type of influence on people here?

You just come-off as if you are quite knowledgeable. If I was speaking to someone who just spent the past 50 years in one field, I might listen to what they have to say (especially if I most likely have little to no experience).

Anger is 99.9% about self, not other.

Once people develop chronic conditions, it's late in the game. — synthesis

Unless of course you are born with chronic conditions. Hence my unanswered question about disability.

Again, the presumption in synthesis' position is that the best system is the one set up for middle-class educated folk - presumably also male and white.

This is what socialism does, plays to the least motivated. — synthesis

This is true. Socialism tends to obstruct the plans of the most motivated, who can morph into exploiters in the right circumstances. Socialism creates an environment where error and inefficiency are tolerated.

If you value the freedom of potential exploiters over this, why?

If you value the freedom of potential exploiters over this, why? — frank

Social man is corrupt. I believe we can all agree on this. So what's a society to do?

You can attempt to attenuate the corruption at the top through socialism (which also cuts out most of the innovation/discovery as well as destroying incentive), or you can allow people to be as creative as possible and keep incentives in place (with REAL checks and balances) and then the entire society can benefit from the people who dedicate their entire lives to this sort of thing.

Look to the 19th century for what can happen when people are set free! THE key is always in attempting to control the corruption. Capitalism is an incredibly productive system if it is allowed to function properly and somebody is watching that the wealthy are not buying too much political influence. The other ingredient is using REAL money. This (funny money) is the cause of most of the difficulties we face today.