news' providers resulted in people being more ignorant than say 10 or 20 years ago? — Tim3003

I think yes because sadly our governments no longer invest in culture and knowledge development. We live in a junk culture and food era... nobody cares about thoughts, feelings, happiness, etc...
sometimes I think they want ignorant people just to reinforce their power

People will talk of "critical thinking skills" as a virtue (they are). But then some folks conflate that with being a critic. They think if they can be a critic (and maybe even a witty and interesting critic, if only in their own minds, but even better if others think it's cool), then they somehow have excellent critical thinking skills. That's why I try to shift the idea over to "analytic thinking skills." You really can't have critique without analysis. If you do, then what you really have is an a**hole.

Also, in America at least, we focus on STEM. STEM produces good little producers and consumers. However, when you combine STEM with hunger, there is no way in hell the United States will ever compete with China and India. So, we should remember that which made us great in the first place, which is the Liberal Arts. If you arrive at STEM because you are hungry, you will never hold a candle to someone who arrives at STEM through deep-seated, fun and love of natural intellectual curiosity.

Nothing stimulates intellectual curiosity like the Liberal Arts. When you get a guy like Thomas Jefferson or some of the other men of the Enlightenment, and you raise them on Philosophy, the language arts and things like Latin and Greek, and history and political science and etc. then of course they will develop an interest in medicine, chemistry, geography, botany, etc. And those folks will always outshine the producers and consumers.

The brain is like a muscle and just because everyone has one, and every one's a critic, doesn't mean they know how to use it. Some resist education because they think they, or their kids, are being taught what to think. In reality, the liberal arts teaches how, not what.

So, the problem manifest in the local school district. Cletus comes home from a long, hard day at work. Hi sits down at the dinner table with his lovely family and happens to let out the smallest complaint. Then, little Bobby and Sally roll his socks in argument, probably some political shit, and Cletus gets pissed. He think those commie teachers at school are filling his kid's heads with liberal BS. So, when it comes time to support the mill levy for the school and education, he votes against it. Meanwhile, he's got his preacher thumbing the book and telling him what's what so his interest in education shifts that direction and things get worse.

So, I'm not so sure people are getting more ignorant. I think they always have been. However, I think in the past people were more inclined to read a book and, after a day of plowing (Yeoman Farmer) they were more willing to be humble and defer to the likes of Jefferson, et al.

What we need is a re-enlightenment. Our founding fathers were fans of public education. But now we have a plutocracy using their accumulated wealth to pick and choose which charity they want to give their money too. Since they aren't really taxed, they can afford to do that, while government is left to be the punching bag for all of societies failures and the plutocrats get to hold themselves out as these great benefactors of society. And the great unwashed swallow it, hook, line and sinker.

When I drive thought various towns and see the old Carnegie Library, I see an ancient memory of a modicum of enlightened self-interest. Self-interest now is sans the enlightenment. Milk those cattle for the last drop this quarter and move on.

Finally, I look around Europe and see them creeping ahead, because the have some enlightenment. And I look at the far and middle east and see the art and architecture we used to lead the world in. And we continue to rot. And we continue to blame the ivory tower intellectual elites and the liberals for all our ills. When, in fact, they could very well be our salvation.

Oh well. I do have some faith in the kids these days. On the rare occasion when I can pierce their mysterious lexicon and magic veil, I often see goodness, energy and enlightenment. If only they didn't have to lead themselves. If only they had worthy mentors. Nevertheless, I think they are going to pull it off. They may roll their eyes at our selfishness, but the too will develop their own skeletons and their own areas where they "knew better" and failed to do better. It's human.

I saw in a UK poll yesterday that even a year after the start of the Covid-19 pandemic about 50% of respondants could not name the disease's major symptoms. — Tim3003

The only way to determine whether people are becoming more ignorant year to year is to compare their knowledge over time. If we go back 3 years for example, I would assume the knowledge base regarding Covid-19 was zero, yet today, the average Brit appears to be fully aware of 50% of the symptoms. Based upon that, I'd say we know more today than 3 years ago and we should be applauded by our advances in education.

May need to wait for a Netflix drama on the subject.

I find this level of ignorance staggering. — Tim3003

What does it take to be knowledgable about general history, general science, current affairs, and the like? It takes lots of reading in these areas, selective TV viewing (mostly PBS), and discussion with others likewise informed. Avoiding the slop troughs of social media is also helpful.

Why don't more people do these things?

Time, for one. As a gay man I've never had the demands of raising children. I have had time to read a lot. I've generally worked at professional service jobs where there were other college educated people. The more one comes to understand, the more one can fit into a better understanding of the world.

Social reward is another. It helps if others appreciate one's knowledge.

On the other hand, we well-informed people should be grateful that most people are taking care of business, and not spending al their time reading.

On the other hand, we well-informed people should be grateful that most people are taking care of business, and not spending al their time reading. — Bitter Crank

True, but some business is as useless as reading, but offers an education as well. I just bought 3 goats. My embarrassing ignorance of goats will soon be relieved, not through passive learning, but through active engagement. The goats I raise won't do anything for the betterment of the world I fear, but I'll finally be able to hold my own in a conversation at the feed and seed.

So, fromage de chèvre. Provided you bought female goats; provided somebody gets them periodically pregnant; provided Mrs. Hanover milks them twice a day (queue the milkmaid fantasy here). A never-pregnant nanny goat gives no milk. You knew that, right? Will you be keeping the goats in the house?

The goats I raise won't do anything for the betterment of the world — Hanover

Is that because you, in particular, raise them, or because of some other reason? Judas goats have contributed to the betterment of the world by leading the sheep to the slaughter. You like lamb, right? Well, Judas goats help you get it. And of course, a Judas goat could keep your three ladies pregnant. Are you going to eat their children---mmm, young goat!? Goat isn't quite as good as lamb, but goat milk is quite good.

I just bought 3 goats. — Hanover

Wow! Are they pygmy goats?

What does it take to be knowledgable about general history, general science, current affairs, and the like? It takes lots of reading in these areas, selective TV viewing (mostly PBS), and discussion with others likewise informed. Avoiding the slop troughs of social media is also helpful.

Why don't more people do these things?

Time, for one. As a gay man I've never had the demands of raising children. I have had time to read a lot. I've generally worked at professional service jobs where there were other college educated people. The more one comes to understand, the more one can fit into a better understanding of the world.

Social reward is another. It helps if others appreciate one's knowledge.

On the other hand, we well-informed people should be grateful that most people are taking care of business, and not spending al their time reading. — Bitter Crank

I’m a middle-class, part-time professional raising two teenage children with a full-time teacher husband. We make time to read a lot, and read to our children from when they were small until they picked up the habit themselves. But then, we also agreed to forego the work-til-you-drop path of social reward (with its bigger debt income, new house and cars, latest tech and annual trip to Bali) for a broader experience of reality, and the wiggle room to make informed rather than ‘popular’ choices.

Time is a poor excuse. It’s about the value of staying informed.

people being more ignorant than say 10 or 20 years ago? — Tim3003

"If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you're misinformed."

-- Mark Twain, allegedly

Has the decline of newspapers and broadcast TV news, plus the rise of social media and the ability to choose among an ever wider selection of streaming or online 'news' providers resulted in people being more ignorant than say 10 or 20 years ago? — Tim3003

To not know the symptoms of COVID in the current era suggests something more than mere ignorance but I am not certain what it is. I don't think the decline of mass media and the introduction of mess media can explain this one.

Will you be keeping the goats in the house? — Bitter Crank

Let's talk goats...

I'm awaiting my kids to be weaned from the teat. If you bottle feed them, they remain very clingy. Once I get them, I'll have them neutered. They are then called withers. If you leave them intact, they release strong pheromones and piss on their beards to woo the ladies. To smell like a goat is a real thing to be avoided.

Female goats go into great heat every 21 days and they don't take to feminine hygiene products, so blood will be a thing. They also get difficult due to hormonal issues if you never breed them. Spaying goats is not a thing because general anesthesia isn't good on goats. A boy goat can get castrated from where he stands though. Ripe for the taking as it were.

Disbudding of all goats is common. It avoids horns caught in fences and annoying head slams.

With all this, you ask "why goats"? Here's why:

I'm naming mine Tater, Jasper, and Cornbread. Jasper the friendly goat is the reason for that name. Kinda funny. Kinda stupid. Therefore perfection.

But to your question. No, not in the house. They shit where they stand, like a horse, just in tiny pellets. Thousands and thousands of pellets.

Once I get them, — Hanover

So you haven't got them.

you haven't got them. — Caldwell

I bought them. They're still with their mom though.

Yeah let them experience the natural attachment to their mom. They're kids!

Some high-profit minded farmers rent their goats out to clear kudzu. They selectively eat it. It's environmentally healthy. And there's the fertilizing pellets.

Will Georgians see you with your shepherd's hook and goat group culling the kudzu?

Are people getting more ignorant?

Yes they are. Not many people know that. Meanwhile, the wild goats have eaten all my tulips. They don't eat daffodils though.

Kinda funny. Kinda stupid. Therefore perfection. — Hanover

:rofl: :rofl: Going into my quotes collection. :up:

Are people getting more ignorant?

Getting?

Seems so.

I transplanted a pretty weed from the park to my house and it turned out to be a highly invasive plant from Japan called knotweed. I spent a couple of years trying to get rid of it and just this year discovered that it's edible. It has a lemony flavor that goes into the brown rice and lentils with wild onions. Yum.

Should have bought chickens.

I don’t think people are getting more ignorant, I think people seem more ignorant because the breadth of human knowledge is so much greater than an individual can know. Its not that ignorance of things is growing so much as the knowledge of things is growing. It’s the contrast of the individual humans ability to know things vs the breadth of the knowledge humans have breached as a species/civilisation.
Take technology for example...its advancing much faster than people are able to adapt to so there are huge gaps in peoples technological knowledge and expertise. I think other knowledge (facilitated by technology/internet) is like this too. There are so many frontiers of knowledge, so many areas of knowledge that humans seem to know so much less.
Basically human knowledge is leaving the individual behind.

Basically human knowledge is leaving the individual behind. — DingoJones

That makes sense. Where one's ability to drive a car is unrelated to their understanding of how it works, the difference is not as great as that between my ability to type and send this, and my ability to understand what the hell is going on. Good point. Of course it doesn't help when a mechanic back in the day might graciously tell me how an internal combustion engine works, whereas IT might roll his eyes and tell me to STFU, or maybe even lie and tell me there are little gremlins inside running things around. And once the gremlins are aligned with a political party, forget it. All knowledge goes to hell.

I find this level of ignorance staggering. — Tim3003

If you take a look at the folks that attended the most prestigious global universities and observe the mess they have made of this world, then you will truly understand ignorance.

Ignorance is not only a lack of knowledge, more importantly, it is a mis-understand of the same.

True, though I would call that misinformation rather than ignorance. That there are bad actors trying to keep people ignorant is a whole other can.

I really must complain about the off-topic posts here. All this stuff about ignorance.

Anyway, chickens will clear an area of ground down to the dirt, ready for sewing seed. The only advantage that accrues to goats is that they will eat the more woody weeds. The disadvantages in terms of broken fences and chewed valuables outweigh their benefit.

Remember a goat is not just for Easter, @Hanover; Or will Tater, Jasper, and Cornbread finish in a curried Christmas carnival?

I used to like goats.

Ignorance? It's the illusion of knowledge that's getting L O U D E R thanks to social media and 24/7 non-stop cable / satellite / streaming "bread & circuses" infotainment. People are still just people – (ten) millennia of syphillisation notwithstanding.

I saw in a UK poll yesterday that even a year after the start of the Covid-19 pandemic about 50% of respondants could not name the disease's major symptoms. I find this level of ignorance staggering. — Tim3003

News item, that you and the other respondents to this thread missed: THERE ARE NO MAJOR SYMPTOMS TO THIS DISEASE.

Most people are symptompless, who get it. What do you call that symptom?

Some people display flu-like symptoms, some others go into a form of pneumonia that very likely kills them. Which is the MAJOR one? There are NO major symptoms, so those who answered "correctly" are the ignorant ones, which still makes it fifty percent... the ignorance level is unchanged at 50%.

I am just trying to give you guys some perspective. The ignorance level is 50%; but ignorance is present not on the same side as the newspaper articles and you all claim.