I wonder if there is a price to pay for all that suddenness. — Tom Storm
In Taoism, for example, the ineffable is related to our experience and that speaks to your preference for "meat and potatoes." But the Tao is also said to be the means to setting up everything on both sides of the gate separating our lives from whatever makes it possible. That encouraged a religious interpretation that was expressed in various ideas of immortality, some of them that are very "occult." — Valentinus
Isn't this fascinating? Kafka... I really like this. — Tom Storm
I think mystery is often used as a synonym for mysticism but for me this suggests it is a puzzle to solve rather than an experiential phenomenon....Sorry, perhaps I lack sufficient precision on this point. — Tom Storm
I think that there is a danger of trying to make mysticism into a neat and tidy term. For some people this may work, but the problem is that the mystical experiences of individuals vary so much as well as the attempts to understand them.Some of those who have experienced mystical states have been those who explored philosophies which are obscure. — Jack Cummins
Or maybe stop using the word altogether. I think that may be the correct solution. — T Clark
The curious thing about this is that there seems to be no direct way to communicate mysticism, we have to elude, circumscribe, reveal, retreat and then make manifest what was already there. — Manuel
Sure. I only would like for people who think of this stuff, not to be labeled as "wacky" or the like. I don't think it is. I have in mind people like Dawkins, for example. — Manuel
Well, I mean, I think there's good actual evidence for this view. I could send you a very good essay about if you are interested. But, in either case, point taken. — Manuel
Since then, while I value the numinous and the ineffable to some extent, I have been unable to shake of a simple minded empiricism and reason based world-view. — Tom Storm
I would be interested in the essay. If you post it, I'll take a look. — T Clark
As Lao Tzu wrote - The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. — T Clark
. The word “theology” means logic about God; theo means God. But there can be no logic about God. There is love about God, love for God, but no logic about God. There are no proofs possible. The only proof is the existence of the mystic. The presence of Dionysius, of Ramakrishna, of Bahauddin – the presence of these people is the proof that God exists, otherwise there is no proof. Because Buddhas have walked on the earth, there are a few footprints of God left behind on the shores of time. — Anand-Haqq
Somewhere logic and love have to meet, because they both exist. — Anand-Haqq
There's stuff we don't know anything about.
When folk talk about that stuff, despite not knowing anything about it, they are being mystical.
Honest folk will remain quiet. — Banno
"There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says “Morning, boys. How’s the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes “What the hell is water?” — Manuel
I spent most of my time in the company of Buddhists, theosophists, mystics, cranks, Gnostics, Jungians and various devotees of I Ching, seances and Gurdjieff movements. Weak and anecdotal, but I never saw anyone benefit from these interests. — Tom Storm
:smirk:Banno is one of those young fish. But Banno proceeds to the conclusion that since "we" don't know what the hell water is, the older fish who uses that term doesn't know either. — Metaphysician Undercover
But there can be no logic about God. — Anand-Haqq
There is love about God, love for God, but no logic about God. — Anand-Haqq
Banno is one of those young fish. But Banno proceeds to the conclusion that since "we" don't know what the hell water is, the older fish who uses that term doesn't know either. — Metaphysician Undercover
However, don't you wish to go beyond a 'meat and potatoes' philosophy as you put it ? I am thinking about Maslow's highest stage on the hierarchy of needs, self actualization? — Jack Cummins
Very much so. It would be interesting to discover if all these mystical teachers, philosophers, people, had in mind the same thing, or something slightly different. Alas, it's clear words can't do it justice. — Manuel
One of the most important statements about mysticism in the Western hemisphere is the book called The Cloud of Unknowing. — Anand-Haqq
First he calls it a cloud. A cloud is vague, with no definable limits. It is constantly changing; it is not static – never, even for two consecutive moments, is it the same. It is a flux, it is pure change. And there is nothing substantial in it. If you hold it in your hand just mist will be left, nothing else. Maybe your hands will become wet, but you will not find any cloud in your fist. — Anand-Haqq
But the meeting of the mystic with the whole is absolute; there is no coming back. He has gone beyond the point of no return. He has dissolved himself like a dew-drop slipping out of the lotus leaf into the lake. He has become the lake. Then whatsoever he says will be contradictory, because a part of it will be the vision of the dew-drop and a part of it will be the vision of the total lake, a part will be the standpoint of the part and a part will be the standpoint of the whole. Hence all mystics have spoken in contradictory terms. — Anand-Haqq
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