Man must be social to grow. A mother chooses childbearing by having sex. Children are f@#k trophies, but if this world is just and right it doesn't matter if you didn't choose existence, your parents, or being born. "It is not for us to choose our trials, but for us to make something of ourselves"

How could one ask a foetus if it wants to be born?

A child is more a spirit in a body than a family progressing device, owned by the parents. — ghostlycutter

Owned by? Heh, you mess up and you'll not only lose said child but your own liberties, if not more.

Children are merely at an age and form in the likeness of a child. — ghostlycutter

I don't get this one. Does the assertion that water is merely at a state and form in the likeness of water make much sense to you? Eh.. maybe it does. But continuing..

Though a child may like it's parents and its role, this is pain suppression, and doesn't contest the practice of child birth as immoral. — ghostlycutter

Not trying to pry but, who on Earth raised you lol. The parent provides controlled discipline, boundaries, and punishment, whereas the real world would provide all these and more yet unrestricted with no limits.

If we could freely change our form, and age, then being a child linked to parents should be their choice, and not the parents choice, or should have a potential cut-off point. — ghostlycutter

We already have too many adult children who weren't raised properly, these are the criminals, the lazy, the dregs, the liars, the thieves, the urchins and overall leeches of society. Might as well make those who brought them here responsible as opposed to the innocent taxpaying citizen.

To conclude, childbirth is immoral but is beautiful art, some may prefer this lifestyle, but that should be a decision for the child to make primarily as it must live in unison with it's parents. — ghostlycutter

What is morality? Why so should we listen to someone born of immorality. After all, you claim doing so is bad. So what makes you begin to think you know anything or your statements, observations, and opinions are anything but immoral and should be ignored, isn't that the basis of your argument after all?

To conclude, childbirth is immoral but is beautiful art, some may prefer this lifestyle, but that should be a decision for the child to make primarily as it must live in unison with it's parents. — ghostlycutter

In some Dharmic religions, it is believed that in order for conception to occur, the will of the prospective father, the will of the prospective mother, and the will of the prospective child need to be in accord. An implication of such an outlook is that in those religions, they believe that whoever was born, in fact wanted to be born, so people are deemed as being responsible for their own existence.

Is this more antinatalism?

Is this more antinatalism? — Manuel

Seems like it. Maybe Bartricks or Schopenhauer1 will respond and we can see if they differ.

In some Dharmic religions, it is believed that in order for conception to occur, the will of the prospective father, the will of the prospective mother, and the will of the prospective child need to be in accord. An implication of such an outlook is that in those religions, they believe that whoever was born, in fact wanted to be born, so people are deemed as being responsible for their own existence. — baker

I like this, both as insight and as rhetoric. I'm going to save it in case I ever accidentally get involved in an anti-natalist discussion.

So this is how Sisyphus felt? As the great American philosopher once said "That must be exhausting."

A child is more a spirit in a body than a family progressing device, owned by the parents. — ghostlycutter

Damn. I was sure my children were family progressing devices I owned! Well, jointly with my spouse, I suppose, as I live in a community property jurisdiction.

childbirth is immoral — ghostlycutter

Life is immoral, so childbirth is immoral. Nietzsche's Daybreak touches on this.

Seems like it. Maybe Bartricks or Schopenhauer1 will respond and we can see if they differ. — T Clark

I don't really know what this one is. This by itself isn't antinatalism proper:

If we could freely change our form, and age, then being a child linked to parents should be their choice, and not the parents choice, or should have a potential cut-off point.

To conclude, childbirth is immoral but is beautiful art, some may prefer this lifestyle, but that should be a decision for the child to make primarily as it must live in unison with it's parents. — ghostlycutter

Unless he is saying, the child needs consent prior to birth, ergo, since consent can never be had, by a child prior to its birth, procreation should not occur, then it is not AN.

It seems more like an argument for somehow choosing parents, etc. but the OP is oddly phrased so can't elaborate more on it.

No, it's not anti-natalism. In fact, it should teach bad parents a good lesson about how a child is to be treated.

Given that childbirth is a curse upon the spirit, on the child end of the,what is to be considered by the parents, bargain, then parents should be more careful of how they express their love and hate, to the child.

Further, allowing the child mental freedom at a suitable age.

Parents should also retire from any social disputes that might'nt end in their favour as to not endanger their children with their own mistakes.

So this is how Sisyphus felt? — Manuel

Are we Sisyphus? Are anti-natalists Sisyphus? I think of myself more as Prometheus, bringing knowledge to the benighted masses here on the forum.

Thanks.

Are we Sisyphus? Are anti-natalists Sisyphus? — T Clark

:chin:

To conclude, childbirth is immoral but is beautiful art, some may prefer this lifestyle, but that should be a decision for the child to make primarily as it must live in unison with it's parents. — ghostlycutter

You should make a copy of this and read it when your eight year old tells you to go f*** yourself because they only got their way 99.9% of the time.