Loyalty seems to be the "highest" for me and I think that's true. — Agustino
Agreed. Even the very first question when I decide whether something is right or wrong, do I consider it relevant whether or not someone conformed to the traditions of society. For me that is a yes, but I assume that in saying yes it would lean towards conservative, but I do consider whether a person who has committed an act be someone who has conformed to fundamentalism or other forms of radical ideology. Loyalty to country vs. whistleblower against government corruption vs. security?That moral foundations test is terribly designed. Almost all of the questions are super abstract. It doesn't test how you think about things; it tests how you think, abstractly, about your moral self-image. This one, though clearly low-rent, is way better. It's not great, by any means, but it at least has the virtue of being concrete — csalisbury
I answered "slightly disagree" on this one because I'm not exactly proud of my country, nor do I think this is a moral value. At the same time, neither is not being proud of your country a moral value so... Slightly disagree fits the best.I am proud of my country's history — TimeLine
I answered "moderately agree" - I could see exceptions, but for the most part they should be loyal to family. For example if my wife or child steal something, I'll do my best to save them from facing the consequences of it, especially if it was the first time they've done such a thing, and they were compelled by some reasons to do them. Now obviously I'd also try to convince them never to do such a thing again. But then it depends, in some circumstances I wouldn't defend them - say if my child rapes someone, then I wouldn't be loyal to him. So it depends on the gravity of the offence, and on their intentions."People should be loyal to their family members, even when they have done something wrong" — TimeLine
I answered "slightly agree" because you're in the army - you have to obey, for the most part. The only times when you can disobey is when you have (1) tried to convince your commander otherwise, and (2) when what you're being asked to do goes against the interests of the army. For example if the commander orders something that consists in betraying the cause the army is fighting for, then you have grounds to disobey. If the commander proposes a course of action you disagree with, you can try to convince the commander otherwise, but ultimately you must listen to what he says - he's the commander for a reason. Without such principles the army couldn't function, nor could pretty much any other organisation."If I were a soldier and disagreed with my commanding officer's orders, I would obey anyway because that is my duty" — TimeLine
Loyalty is the most relevant in my opinion. There's probably nothing that I dislike more than betrayal. Having character is equivalent to loyalty - loyalty to principles, people, etc. — Agustino
And yes, being loyal would indeed lead to immortality, as you yourself say :D — Agustino
As for authority, it is moral to obey authority when (1) that authority is right in its views and (2) you clearly perceive it is so. To do otherwise is to be immoral. — Agustino
Therefore there needs to be respect for just authority. — Agustino
But yes, if the authority is wrong, then it isn't an authority anymore... Clearly! — Agustino
No, it's never good to betray them. Betrayal involves deception, and that's never good. Having character emerges out of loyalty - it is loyalty that structures the character.But it is good to betray bad principles, people, etc., whether you dislike or or not. And having character is not equivalent to loyalty; loyalty is just a single quality or characteristic, whereas having character means more than that. — Sapientia
Yes, but when it exists in its proper form it has to be accorded with the necessary respect, and it would be immoral not to.So authority is secondary. Whatever makes the authority right in its views is primary - and I think that that very often relates to fairness and harm. — Sapientia
YesThere should be, but only when those conditions are met. — Sapientia
No, it's never good to betray them. — Agustino
Betrayal involves deception, and that's never good. — Agustino
Having character emerges out of loyalty - it is loyalty that structures the character. — Agustino
Yes, but when it exists in its proper form it has to be accorded with the necessary respect, and it would be immoral not to. — Agustino
No I can't accept that. It wouldn't have been good to betray the Nazis, it would have been good to oppose them. That is different. Everyone hates traitors, even those who benefit from them.It would've been good to betray the Nazis. If you can't accept that, then there's a big problem with your moral foundations. — Sapientia
These are acts of betrayal. There is a difference between betrayal and oppositionwhich you can do without either letting them know beforehand or deceiving them — Sapientia
:-} Deception is still immoral, but maybe necessarily immoral per @Heister Eggcart's usage of the term in such circumstancesAnd anyway, if deception avoids terrible consequences, such as those risked in a hostage situation, then deception is the good option in contrast to bad options. — Sapientia
And this is your personal view as well, not a truth about matters themselves.That's your personal view of character, not a truth about character itself. — Sapientia
If you don't do it in that case, then you are immoral. So it is a need if you want to be moral.Firstly, it isn't about "need" or "has to be". It's about what ought to be. I don't need to do anything. — Sapientia
>:O Like 30% of the questions are sexually related...That moral foundations test is terribly designed. Almost all of the questions are super abstract. It doesn't test how you think about things; it tests how you think, abstractly, about your moral self-image. This one, though clearly low-rent, is way better. It's not great, by any means, but it at least has the virtue of being concrete. — csalisbury
Deception is still immoral, but maybe necessarily immoral per Heister Eggcart's usage of the term in such circumstances — Agustino
No I can't accept that. It wouldn't have been good to betray the Nazis, it would have been good to oppose them. That is different. Everyone hates traitors, even those who benefit from them. — Agustino
These are acts of betrayal. There is a difference between betrayal and opposition — Agustino
Deception is still immoral, but maybe necessarily immoral per Heister Eggcart's usage of the term in such circumstances — Agustino
And this is your personal view as well, not a truth about matters themselves. — Agustino
If you don't do it in that case, then you are immoral. So it is a need if you want to be moral. — Agustino
I don't think it's crazy at all. From a pragmatic point of view, there's nothing worse than a traitor. That's why, for example, in Chinese strategy manuals it is advised to kill traitors after you use them, because they are scum, good for nothing, when the world is most dear to you, they will betray you. That's why nobody from a pragmatic point of view likes traitors. Traitors lack commitment. Traitors mean disaster.That's crazy. And no, everyone doesn't. In some cases, many people share my view that they should be lauded for doing the right thing in difficult circumstances. — Sapientia
Nope - the ends don't justify the means.Deception isn't immoral in itself, and in some situations it would form part of a moral act. — Sapientia
Yeah, maybe in another lifetime you bother to actually provide it :-!and especially if there is good reason to reject it (which there is). — Sapientia
Okay but if you analyze my scores, it doesn't seem I fit the left-liberal pattern. For one, left-liberals show a tendency for high scores in care and fairness, low scores in loyalty, authority and purity, and a median score in Liberty. I don't fit that pattern. I have high scores in all of them (with just authority being the lowest). This does actually reflect how I am. But it's not a left-liberal pattern - the assigning algorithm fails in my case. I'm closer to conservatives, but I don't fit in with many conservatives either, but I fit better than with left-liberals.Like I said, the first test really measures one's own idea of one's moral foundation. You appear to spend a lot of time grooming your moral self-image, so it's not surprising that the results of the first test would seem more pleasing and correct to you. — csalisbury
When I saw this one, I said there's something wrong (but not maximum wrongness) with feminists seeking to do this. They should just open women only clubs :P"Some men have a private, all-male club and feminists take them to court, demanding that they open it up to women." — Heister Eggcart
This one was fucked up - I gave it maximum wrong. I also gave maximum wrong to the cheating ones >:O"Sarah's dog has four puppies. She can only find a home for two of them, so she kills the other two with a stone to the head." — Heister Eggcart
We're not doing business together Heister... >:OLoyalty - 10.6% >:O — Heister Eggcart
We're not doing business together Heister... — Agustino
Me neither lol. The relative ones are the relative weighting of that respective factor compared with the other factors (that's why they add up to 100%). So that shows that loyalty has a relatively low place in your moral scheme.What're those scores relative to? I'm about as loyal to the good as I can be, dunno how I'm failing in that category. I wouldn't consider someone loyal if they put up with sluts and cheaters, :-| — Heister Eggcart
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