• Gregory
    4.7k
    So I am reading about book by Terry Pinkard on German idealism. It quotes Kant as follows: "But the figurative synthesis, if it be directed merely to the original synthetic unity of apperception, must, in order to be distinguished from the merely intellectual combination, be called the transcendental synthesis of imagination. Imagination is the faculty of representing in intuition an object that is not itself present... But in as much as its synthesis is an expression of spontaneity, which is determination and not, like sense, determinable merely, and which is therefore able to determine sense a priori in respect of its form in accordance with the unity of apperception, imagination is to that extent a faculty which determines the sensibility a priori; and its synthesis of intuitions, conforming as it does to the categories, must be the trancendental synthesis of imagination. This synthesis is an action of the understanding on the sensibility; and is its first application- and thereby the ground of all its other applications- to the objects of our possible intuition. As figurative, it is distinguished from the intellectual synthesis, which is carried out by the understanding alone, with the aid of the imagination." Critique of Pure Reason, 1251-252

    Pinkard comments on this by saying, "Hegel was especially taken with Kant's conception of a 'figurative synthesis' which transforms what would otherwise be non-normatively significant sensations into normatively significant intuitions; it is in figurative synthesis that we generate the pure intuitions of space and time (as representations of possible objects) and thereby the form of the appearing world itself."

    I like to start with the Greeks and to consider the opposition between Parmenides and Heraclitus. Pythagoras has had a mystical philosophy of mathematics, but did not express the hierarchy of math within a larger framework. Parmenides claimed all was one Being, the infinite through the illusion of the finite. Heraclitus claims however that the finite was infinite and all was infinite flux. Aristotle tried to find some middle ground here but had a less than cosmic answer to the whole of reality. Phenomenology, the school of thought that started with Kant I believe, says that reality is being and flux together, thereny taking the steps of the ancient Greeks to a third point. Phenomena, I believe, means that reality is both becoming and being, both subjective and objective, and both phenomena and noumena. Although we are biological beings, there is a sense of us being more than that, of us being rational beings. Perhaps phenomenology is not a true doctrine and we are literally monkeys on a flying rock. But phenomenology for me indicates that there is something mysterious in us and in nature, something that Spinoza felt too, although perhaps he tried to define it too much. At the end of thought, we can only think of things outside us and have our concepts about our own concepts. The question that is at the heart of metaphysics is: am i the originator of my reality (thru my thoughts) or am I completely controlled by forces outside me
  • Jack Cummins
    5.3k

    I have been wondering recently about your question of whether we are the originators of our thoughts, or controlled by forces outside of us. I believe that it is really the question underlying that of free will. It depends on to what extent we are reflective agents, and it is complex.

    That is because we originate as parts of living systems, but as we develop, we have a determining role for ourselves, and in relation to other living systems. Perhaps the mind is like a channel, taking in and interacting with the environment, which appears to be objective reality. Subjective and objective may be like looking at two sides of the same coin, as the two interconnected aspects of duality.
  • Mww
    4.9k


    I understand you yourself have used the Pinkard reference as an indirect source for the quoted passage, so the Prussian Academy pagination system won’t apply. If it did, in B152 you’d find, as Pinkard himself should have, the last line of the quote to read “...without the aid....”.

    It matters as far as textual accuracy is concerned, but doesn’t effect your comment all that much.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    The question that is at the heart of metaphysics is: am I the originator of my reality (thru my thoughts) or am I completely controlled by forces outside meGregory

    The great misunderstanding of the fallacy of false alternatives (it seems to me) is that in being fallacious, it seems to establish other alternatives. But it doesn't; it is merely self-annihilating, establishing nothing and properly understood, implying nothing. .

    But to the seeming question, the either-or, Aristotle's answer of neither-nor seems right. And this seems to have been covered comprehensively by Kant, To the hull of whose thought a lot of barnacles have attached themselves. Btw, that Pinkard's, a copy here at hand, is some book!
  • Joshs
    5.7k
    Phenomenology, the school of thought that started with Kant I believe, says that reality is being and flux together, thereny taking the steps of the ancient Greeks to a third point. Phenomena, I believe, means that reality is both becoming and being, both subjective and objective, and both phenomena and noumena.Gregory

    Modern phenomenology began with Husserl around 1900. While it is indebted to Kant’s phenomenology , it functions as a critique of Kant. For Husserl, Being IS becoming. The subject provides no contentful categories of meaning but is merely a pole alongside the objective pole in the constitution of sense from
    moment to moment. There is no noumenon, only appearance.
  • Mww
    4.9k
    To the hull of whose thought a lot of barnacles have attached themselves.tim wood

    ....only to slow the ship, or veer it from its plotted course.

    Kant didn’t treat of phenomena beyond undetermined representation, because he didn’t have to. Those following, in so treating, whether philosophical progress or mere professional opportunism......ehhhh, for each student to decide for himself.
  • Gregory
    4.7k


    There is no noumema, only appearance, but being is becoming and becoming is being. Phenomenology as I see it started with Kant and was developed very well by Hegel. The sections on Hegel is Pinkard's book are excellent. The world does not depend on a necessary being. Nor is it a hologram of a greater reality. In fact it seems to me that the hologram idea of the world is like a type of theism where reality does not have all the reality of needs to exist but has to have a ground of being. The simulation hypothesis is popular but that just says a computer somewhere is the greater being creating the illusion of a world. Theism, hologram ideas, and simulation theory all make the world less than it is and takes away from the substance and flux that we are so clearly in leaves of autumn. If you think that Husserl provided additional development of the ideas of Kant and Hegel, feel free to post something on it here. I am much more familiar with his student Heidegger but Husserl was definitely a giant of his time
  • Joshs
    5.7k
    If you think that Husserl provided additional development of the ideas of Kant and Hegel, feel free to post something on it here. I am much more familiar with his student HeideggerGregory

    Do you think that Heidegger provided additional development of the ideas of Kant and Hegel? More specifically, did he simply add to what they said or did he transform their ideas through a critique of them? I think both Husserl and Heidegger left behind certain metaphysics assumptions of Kant and Hegel.
  • Gregory
    4.7k


    I don't think anyone has added anything to Kant. Hegel, Heidegger, and maybe Husserrl (who I don't know much about) have just taken the basic idea deeper but it's still Kant's idea. What do you think modern phenomenology discards from Hegel or Kant?
  • Gregory
    4.7k
    Kant's basic idea was a union of the thought of Parmenides and Heraclitus such the the world was both subjective and objective, and thus beyond both. Kant speaks of substance within a framework of phenomena. Aristotle had made the world a contingent place utterly dependent on a necessary prime mover. Kant gave the world back to us but without a purely materialist way of speaking and conceiving of it
  • Joshs
    5.7k
    What do you think modern phenomenology discards from Hegel or Kant?Gregory

    Kant believed that there was an objective world independent of the subject that the subject could come to know more and more perfectly as an asymptotic vector. Heidegger discards the idea of a world independent of the Dasein’s projective structure. Kant believes there were a priori categories of mind that allow us to organize experience via space time and causality. Heidegger rejected the idea of innate categories of perception. Kant also asserted the categorical imperative pertaining to moral values. Heidegger rejected this notion.
  • Gregory
    4.7k
    Heidegger discards the idea of a world independent of the Dasein’s projective structure.Joshs

    I'm not sure he does. Hegel seems to in most people's reading of him, but I don't think he is a pure idealist, nor Heidegger. I've never heard of Heidegger being an idealist before to be honest

    Heidegger rejected the idea of innate categories of perception.Joshs

    If you say he is an idealist, than everything is innate categories

    Kant also asserted the categorical imperative pertaining to moral values. Heidegger rejected this notion.Joshs

    That's aside from their ontology
  • Joshs
    5.7k
    Heidegger discards the idea of a world independent of the Dasein’s projective structure.
    — Joshs

    I'm not sure he does. Hegel seems to in most people's reading of him, but I don't think he is a pure idealist, nor Heidegger. I've never heard of Heidegger being an idealist before to be honest
    Gregory

    I’m not sure what you mean by a pure idealist. You mean like Berkeley? Is Kant a pure idealist in your view? At any rate, Heidegger isnt saying that there is nothing but Dasein’s projective structure. He’s saying that one cannot separate the world from the subject.

    “To say that the world is subjective is to say that it belongs to the Dasein so far as this being is in
    the mode of being-in-the-world. The world is something which the “subject” “projects outward as it were, from within itself. But are we permitted to speak here of an inner and an outer? What can this projection mean? Obviously not that the world is a piece of myself in the sense of some other thing present in me as in a thing and that I throw the world out of this subject thing in order to catch hold of the other things with it. Instead, the Dasein itself is as such already projected. So far as the Dasein exists a world is cast-forth with the Dasein’s being. To exist means, among other things, to cast-forth a world, and in fact in such a way that with the thrownness of this projection, with the factical existence of a Dasein, extant entities are always already uncovered.”
  • Gregory
    4.7k
    He’s saying that one cannot separate the world from the subject.Joshs

    That's how I interpret Kant

    like BerkeleyJoshs

    There are two types of pure (real) idealists: those who believe that reality is all thought and those who believe our thoughts create matter. Phenomenology is a whole different perspective from this, which your quote from Heidegger explicates very well
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