Better to die in silence than take other innocent people with you. — Echarmion

You want Israel, a genocidal state, to hold the exclusive means of violence. At least people like twoBit are clear minded in their shittyness - your liberal civility politics is the worst of both positions - one that plays enabler to genocide while pretending to call it an evil. An evil that you're so concerned about that your counsel is to 'just let it happen baby'.

There's a reason that when they lined up the Nazis and the collaborators against the wall - the latter of whom always protested that they were just trying to make things bearable - they shot the collaborators first.

You want Israel, a genocidal state, to hold the exclusive means of violence. — StreetlightX

No, I don't. I want violence to be useful.

At least people like twoBit are clear minded in their shittyness - your liberal civility politics is the worst of both positions - one that plays enabler to genocide while pretending to call it an evil. An evil that you're so concerned about that your counsel is to 'just let it happen baby'. — StreetlightX

And what's your "counsel" then? You're accusing me of "enabling genocide" by disagreeing with you. So what is it that you do that is so important in the fight against genocide? Does your unwavering support on an internet forum turn into a weapon in some poor Palestinians hands?

There's a reason that when they lined up the Nazis and the collaborators against the wall - the latter of whom always protested that they were just trying to make things bearable - they shot the collaborators first. — StreetlightX

Does thinking about lining me up against the wall and shooting me arouse you?

I want violence to be useful. — Echarmion

Which, in the context of the open-air concentration camp that is Gaza, is indistinguishable from demanding that Israel alone has the exclusive rights to exercise violence. Your gatekeeping of violence does not take in some rarefied intellectual game-space where a genocided population gets the pleasure of picking when and how they enact resistance to a power that crushes them at every turn. It doesn’t take place after tea time, once the children are put to bed, and everyone agrees to duels in twilight by the gardens.

Which, in the context of the open-air concentration camp that is Gaza, is indistinguishable from demanding that Israel alone has the exclusive rights to exercise violence. — StreetlightX

I don't see how you imagine that attributing to someone the "right" to commit useless violence helps them.

Your gatekeeping of violence does not take in some rarefied intellectual game-space where a genocided population gets the pleasure of picking when and how they enact resistance to a power that crushes them at every turn. — StreetlightX

That's precisely where it takes place. I'm not under the illusion that any talk about who has the "right" to commit violence changes the situation on the ground.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that there is some mystical connection between what's written in this thread and the fate of actual people in Palestine.

Ah, the last bastion of the weasel - “I’m not actually talking about what’s going on in Palestine, I’m just war-gaming it for my intellectual edification, even as it has nothing to do with the realities of the situation”. “Also this doesn’t make a difference so who cares lol”.

Except rhetoric like yours is routinely wheeled out precisely in order to uphold the conditions of atrocity, and yeah, I really enjoy showing it up for the absolute shithouse of an argument it is.

Ah, the last bastion of the weasel - “I’m not actually talking about what’s going on in Palestine, I’m just war-gaming it for my intellectual edification, even as it has nothing to do with the realities of the situation”. “Also this doesn’t make a difference so who cares lol”. — StreetlightX

I'll just repeat what I said:

I don't see how you imagine that attributing to someone the "right" to commit useless violence helps them. — Echarmion

Do you imagine that calling me names and fantasizing about committing violence is somehow helping?

Except rhetoric like yours is routinely wheeled out precisely in order to uphold the conditions of atrocity, — StreetlightX

Ah yes, I'm just a symbol of oppression. This is all an elaborate theater piece where you are the knight in shining armour tilting against the evil oppressor. What anyone actually says or believes is irrelevant, so long as you imagine yourself on the "right" side. And if it so happened that you judged Israel to be home to an oppressed people, you'd effortlessly argue in favour of killing Palestinian children.

What exactly does 'helping' or not have to do with anything? You said a shit thing, and it remains shit no matter how hard you bloviate around it. No wonder that you've dropped it entirely in order to wonder in the weeds of irrelevance.

What exactly does 'helping' or not have to do with anything? — StreetlightX

You're the one who insists I'm "enabling genocide", that I'm sitting in some ivory tower, divorced from the actual situation. You tell me how what I'm doing is so different from what you're doing.

You said a shit thing, and it remains shit no matter how hard you bloviate around it. No wonder that you've dropped it entirely in order to wonder in the weeds of irrelevance. — StreetlightX

What have I dropped?

You're the one who insists I'm "enabling genocide", that I'm sitting in some ivory tower, divorced from the actual situation. — Echarmion

Actually, you insisted on this after I pointed it out. Having you admit that you're literally talking about a fantasy is quite good enough in my book. It means you have nothing to say and, in the case that you do, it means nothing of relevance. Well, outside of using that fantasy to push for the cause of aiding a genocidal state.

Actually, you insisted on this after I pointed it out. Having you admit that you're literally talking about a fantasy is quite good enough in my book. It means you have nothing to say and, in the case that you do, it means nothing. — StreetlightX

And yet you found it necessary to lie about me repeatedly. Weird to lie about nothing. Oh and also you fantasized about lining me up against the wall and shooting me. I think it's very important that we keep that in mind here.

By the way, you're evading my question.

What have I dropped? — Echarmion

Your shit take on Palestinian resistance - which, apparently, has nothing to do with actual Palestinians.

But by all means, make this discussion about me, personally, instead, you vapid, substanceless nong.

Your shit take on Palestinian resistance - which, apparently, has nothing to do with actual Palestinians. — StreetlightX

So, does firing rockets at Israeli cities help actual Palestinians, or does it simply kill them faster? Does saying that Israeli citizens are "in the camp of the oppressor" help actual Palestinians?

Oh right, helping the actual Palestinians isn't the point. What is the point?

Isreal will continue to genocide Palestinians regardless of rocket attacks. Whether they ‘help’ or not is - like the rest of your questions - is completely inconsequential. The focus on the rocket attacks is a sideshow, peddled by the propagandised and the enablers, who would demonstrably otherwise prefer they lay down and die in silence - which is literally something you said, you fucker, and not a ‘lie'.

Isreal will continue to genocide Palestinians regardless of rocket attacks. — StreetlightX

True.

Whether they ‘help’ or not is - like the rest of your questions - is completely inconsequential. The focus on the rocket attacks is a sideshow, peddled by the propagandised and the enablers, — StreetlightX

Now it's only one tiny step from this conclusion to the realisation that yes, it actually matters whether or not the rocket attacks help. But that's only if you actually care about the result.

who would demonstrably otherwise prefer they lay down and die in silence - which is literally something you said, you fucker, and not a ‘lie'. — StreetlightX

Quote me then. Show me these exact words coming from this account.

Obviously you can't, liar.

Better to die in silence than take other innocent people with you. — Echarmion

The Hamas has no military solution, and as such it cannot justify its military actions as fighting against oppression. — Echarmion

Which, again means: only Isreal can exercise violence.

Which, again means: only Isreal can exercise violence. — StreetlightX

I'm sorry, I though you were going to show me where I said I'd prefer Palestinians to "lay down and die in silence"?

But of course all you can offer is an interpretation in line with your theater. Liar.

I'm sorry you're too stupid to reckon with the implications of your own words.

I'm sorry you're too stupid to reckon with the implications of your own words. — StreetlightX

No, I understand the implications of my own words precisely - that it's better to die rather than to die and cause more pointless death on the way.

I would have thought that isn't controversial, but one can be wrong.

What you want is a literal oxymoron: a civilised violence. And even then, only on the part of the oppressed, in impossible conditions, considering your near silence - or at least disproportionate expense of energy - when it comes to Isreali atrocities. What you don't want is concomitant with this: that an oppressed people resist their own genocide.

hat you want is a literal oxymoron: a civilised violence. — StreetlightX

No, what I want is practical measures. "Civilized" doesn't come into it.

And even then, only on the part of the oppressed, considering your near silence - or at least disproportionate whining - when it comes to Isreali atrocities. — StreetlightX

Once again we're doing theater. Should I preface all my posts with a denunciation of Israeli actions or can we treat each other as people rather than carricatures?

No, what I want is practical measures — Echarmion

= what you want is for Palestinians to die in silence.

Good chat.

= what you want is for Palestinians to die in silence. — StreetlightX

And what you want is for people to just die. You want more people to be killed, either because you like people dieing, or because you cannot face the reality that sometimes bad people win.

I don’t need to want that. That’s happening. Because Isreal is killing people. But I would not be such a snivelling dog to genocide and power as to demand that resistance either be entirely effective, or cease altogether. One imagines a wretch like you at the ghetto uprisings, telling people to accept their lot and not antagonise the scary SS man ('because sometimes bad people win').

I don’t need to want that. — StreetlightX

But you do want it, or else what's the implication of wanting violence, even where it is useless?

Because I would not presume to tell a genocided population how to exercise what little autonomy they have left, especially against the very murderous state that is carrying out said genocide. I would not tell them to lay down and die, unlike some armchair shitstain who has the luxury of clutching his nose at the smell of blood (but only when spilled by one side).

Because I would not presume to tell a genocided population how to exercise what little autonomy they have left, especially against a murderous state. I would not tell them to lay down and die, unlike some armchair shitstain. — StreetlightX

Why not? Because the optics are more important to you than lifes? Because you can't bring yourself to face the reality?

It's not out of concern for the people in question, because you have already concluded they'll die. So your concern here can only be for yourself, your ego.

Why not? — Echarmion

Because I'm not an armchair shitstain who, in addition to being a lapdog to genocide, would even demand to control the terms of death by those meting it out.

Because I'm not an armchair shitstain. — StreetlightX

Haha, well I guess that's as close to an actual answer as we're going to get. Can't get your own self image as the glorious revolutionary get dented.

Yeah, real revolutionary to oppose genocide and affirm the rights of resistance to it. Not like, the lowest possible bar of humanity.