At what quantity does water become a fluid?

Benj96

One molecule of H2O is not water. It is not fluid. It cannot crystallise at zero degrees Celsius nor can it boil at 100 degrees. It cannot dissolve anything. It holds very little in the way of the properties of water.

But strangely if you add numerous H20 molecules together then you see these properties emerge. How to resolve this?
H2O alone is not water yet it is the only constituent of pure water.

I think this phenomenon is important to note about physical things: it seems the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts only.
It would be more accurate in this case to say the whole is equal to the sum of the parts plus the interaction between these parts - a separate “additive” meta-physical process.

Perhaps in the case of the mind we see that same emergence. One neuron by itself is not a mind just like one molecule of water is not water. But when put together, some interactive process permits all the qualities that amplify the intrinsic properties of the units .

bert1

You've set up the discussion nicely, but to be clear, is this thread intended to be about water, consciousness, emergence, or all of these?

alan1000

"One molecule of H2O is not water."

I'm sorry, but you are wrong, H2O is precisely the definition of water. A single molecule of water can, in fact, achieve the states of molecular excitation which typically result in freezing, crystallisation, or boiling.

If only one molecule of water is present, then obviously crystallisation can't take place. But that doesn't stop it from being a molecule of water. If it isn't water, what else is it?

TheMadFool

↪Benj96

If consciousness is a function of complexity then, yes, it could be a phenomenon that arises from the myriad ways complex structures/systems can be permuted in re to their constituent parts. This isn't a new idea though and nor does it seem to be something which would evoke the response, "that's not obvious" but then,

There's nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact — Arthur Conan Doyle

TonesInDeepFreeze

There's nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact — Arthur Conan Doyle

"There is nothing as mysterious as a fact clearly described."
— Garry Winogrand

EricH

↪Benj96

Sorites Paradox

Benj96

But that doesn't stop it from being a molecule of water. If it isn't water, what else is it? — alan1000

I’m not saying it isn’t chemically water. Of course it is. I’m saying as unit of water it does not have the properties we attribute to a fluid or crystal of ice. The point I was getting at is “why must it be a collective before it demonstrates certain behaviours that we associate with the fluid and its properties? And secondly does this phenomenon apply to other simple units like the cause of a neuron not being a mind. But a collective being so.

Benj96

You've set up the discussion nicely, but to be clear, is this thread intended to be about water, consciousness, emergence, or all of these? — bert1

I guess that’s up to your interpretation. I think it’s maybe a comparison between to things that seemingly don’t elicit information or behaviours as a single unit that they have as a collective. And why is this the case?

Benj96

↪EricH

yes this paradox is exactly the type of thing I was looking for. When is a heap of sand not a heap Is a great analogy.

James Riley

This sounds like the thread on what is wrong with Individualism. Nothing is wrong with a single molecule of water, but a rock will stop it.

bongo fury

the whole is equal to the sum of the parts plus the interaction between these parts - a separate “additive” meta-physical process. — Benj96

Why the meta?

At what quantity does water become a fluid?

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