Let us admit (something Wittgenstein would not admit) that there is indeed an "ethical value in itself", as Objectivists say. But if that ethical value exists, that value could not be strictly in this physical or material world, because if it were in the purely physical or material world it could not give transcendental meaning to the physical or material world, because it is precisely an empirical phenomenon. That is, the sense of the world has to be outside the world. In the world everything is as it is and happens as it does happen ("Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist"), in such a way that the meaning of the world has to be outside it, and if it is outside the world it implies that it is transcendental : “All value is transcendental. It is clear that ethics cannot be expressed ”. "Ethics is transcendental" says Wittgenstein.
"God does not reveal himself" (Wittgenstein)
Why doesn't he reveal himself? Because he can't reveal himself. How could the transcendent be revealed in the immanent physical world?
Nothing that is physical and material can produce something that is not physical and material, such as an immutable value (an absolute duty).
It is like expecting an apple tree to produce pears or to get wine out of a large barrel of water. A logical impossibility.
A two-way problem arises in this relationship of God with the empirical world:
(1) Upwards: the possibility of language to grasp the transcendental.
(2) Downwards: the possibility of the transcendental to infiltrate, to penetrate the world.
A problem, I repeat, that has two courses of action, being double in nature: first, the possibility that a physical language, that a factual thought, that a thought that is matter captures the transcendental; second, that from a thought or better still from a transcendental idea there is room for the possibility of penetrating the physical world, and then, look what Wittgenstein concludes: “A single proposition of ethics, that is, a single absolute proposition that were really an ethical proposition [or to put it another way, a single speck of God, of the transcendental] that penetrated the empirical world would make it burst into a thousand pieces ”. What a horrible thing, this is!
That is to say: If God existed (which in itself remains to be seen), there would also be an unfathomable gulf between his greatness, his omnipotence, his spirituality and his ability to access the material world. It is assumed here, of course, that God is not matter (he is immaterial), since if he were subject to physical laws he would be a decadent God, an absolutely powerless God, a hoax of a God. In other words, despite his omnipotence, he cannot infiltrate matter, into the physical world in which we live, so he remains an alien God, from another plane. This leads me to a devastating conclusion on the theological-metaphysical plane:
If God existed, the physical world would not exist. The physical world is ontologically incompatible with the nature of God. A single particle of the transcendental (of ethics, for example) would serve to crumble the entire universe. But, the physical world exists. Ergo: God does not exist. — Mr.S
I can only describe my feeling by the metaphor, that, if a man could write a book on Ethics which really was a book on Ethics, this book would, with an explosion, destroy all the other books in the world. Our words used as we use them in science, are vessels capable only of containing and conveying meaning and sense, natural meaning and sense. Ethics, if it is anything, is supernatural and our words will only express facts; as a teacup will only hold a teacup full of water even if I were to pour out a gallon over it.
I do read Hegel but a contradiction is not resolved by forcing it into place. — Gregory
I see transendence and immanence as different but the same, and God as us and not us. The physical and spiritual are two sides of a coin — Gregory
If the spaces between thoughts is wide enough, what appears as a contradiction will latter dissolve into something new and the difference between objective and subjective will radically change — Gregory
but I too still reject things as false but they absorb into the wider ocean at the end of the day — Gregory
That's a bit selective. Isn't it "God does not reveal himself in the world"? — Banno
I'd also question the notion hat Witti had an "ethical Doctrine"; pretty much the opposite, such things being shown rather than said — Banno
...doctrine... — Amalac
A two-way problem arises in this relationship of God with the empirical world: — Mr.S
If God existed (which in itself remains to be seen), there would also be an unfathomable gulf between his greatness, his omnipotence, his spirituality and his ability to access the material world. — Mr.S
The problem with that interpretation is that according to most accepted theological conceptions of God, — Amalac
That's just a very poor choice of word. A Doctrine, creed, dogma... the implication of explicit rules. — Banno
It's not that he does not reveal himself, but that if he exists he must be obvious. — Banno
A two-way problem arises in this relationship of God with the empirical world:
(1) Upwards: the possibility of language to grasp the transcendental.
(2) Downwards: the possibility of the transcendental to infiltrate, to penetrate the world.
A problem, I repeat, that has two courses of action, being double in nature: first, the possibility that a physical language, that a factual thought, that a thought that is matter captures the transcendental; second, that from a thought or better still from a transcendental idea there is room for the possibility of penetrating the physical world — Mr.S
You neglect consideration of an existential relationship. — Fooloso4
Is this a concept of God that Wittgenstein endorsed? — Fooloso4
I suggest that if your concern is with Wittgenstein then stick with what he said rather than concepts he does not explicitly ascribe to. — Fooloso4
Many statements we make have many meanings. — Gregory
If I am in a doorway, I am both in the door way and in the room I'm stepping into. — Gregory
I would just suggest reading about Jains's seven values logic if you are interested in Hegel's style of argument. That's a good place to start — Gregory
If God existed (which in itself remains to be seen), there would also be an unfathomable gulf between his greatness, his omnipotence, his spirituality and his ability to access the material world. It is assumed here, of course, that God is not matter (he is immaterial), since if he were subject to physical laws he would be a decadent God, an absolutely powerless God, a hoax of a God. In other words, despite his omnipotence, he cannot infiltrate matter, into the physical world in which we live, so he remains an alien God, from another plane. This leads me to a devastating conclusion on the theological-metaphysical plane:
If God existed, the physical world would not exist. The physical world is ontologically incompatible with the nature of God. A single particle of the transcendental (of ethics, for example) would serve to crumble the entire universe. But, the physical world exists. Ergo: God does not exist. — Mr.S
and yet there it is. — Banno
If God existed, the physical world would not exist. The physical world is ontologically incompatible with the nature of God. A single particle of the transcendental (of ethics, for example) would serve to crumble the entire universe. But, the physical world exists. Ergo: God does not exist. — Mr.S
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