If I do not pay my taxes I am subject to many penalties, up to and including jail time. If I do not pay a the federal or provincial sales tax on food I do not eat. If I do not pay property taxes I lose my home. Do you suppose I have a say in this? — NOS4A2
I'm thinking about selling up and moving to Portland. What do you think? Buy a house there, start a business. Send my kids to school. I was hoping to get your advice. — counterpunch
Provided you live in a democracy, you do have a say. Merely that you do not get what you want is not the same as not having a say.
The transfer of my wealth to the state occurs at the point of every single purchase I make. In which of these transactions do I get a say? — NOS4A2
I do get a say in the private arena, however, by accepting or refusing the terms of their contracts. I, too, am a part of this arena after all. If I don’t like the offer I can find one elsewhere and they can do the same in a reciprocal fashion. — NOS4A2
In any case, private actors are not taking my wealth without my consent. — NOS4A2
You can also evade the tax authorities and live in a cave. Theoretical options abound. But you must eat, have shelter, etc. So in a practical sense you are not free to decline any offer, just as you're not free to not pay taxes or refuse someone with a gun to your head.
Then you must be quite wealthy. Lots of people are less lucky then you are and don't really have the option to think about their consent.
In the case of food and shelter, one can choose between a variety of options. If a loaf of bread is too expensive or too stale I can decline to purchase it and choose another. — NOS4A2
Well no, it’s just that I understand the basics of trade. Which private actors take your wealth without your consent, and how are they able to do it? — NOS4A2
Maine? At once both the place to wish for and to be careful about what you wish for. @csalisbury can be found there, try PMing him.I'm thinking about selling up and moving to Portland. — counterpunch
I am not persuaded. To me, willingly paying for goods and services are not the same as having my wealth coercively taken from at every transaction. If I refuse to buy from private hands I do not receive their service; if I refuse to buy from state hands I go to jail and have to pay anyways, and with interest. I fear the latter, not the former, and I am unable to see how one could say otherwise. — NOS4A2
Maine? At once both the place to wish for and to be careful about what you wish for. csalisbury can be found there, try PMing him. — tim wood
Theft, robbery and forced labor are evils — NOS4A2
If it is true that the impact of these consequences depend on your circumstances, and not on morals or principle, then it seems the circumstances that favor this sort of relationship is one of servility and obedience to authority, and not much else. — NOS4A2
I personally know some people, none of whom were well off, that were born stateless, born in anarchy, and happened to have parents who believed they could "go it alone". Indeed, they did go it alone for decades, their lives consisting of mostly surfing and fishing, but state enforcers burned their houses to the ground because the government wanted to expand a provincial park. So it's just untrue that a sheltered life begets disdain for state meddling, theft and taxation. — NOS4A2
No one wields similar power to the state, is my point, and I still do not understand how one can conflate state power with anything else. — NOS4A2
Perhaps you can explain it because no one seems to be able to move beyond simply repeating it. The state has the monopoly on violence, with military and civilian enforcement at its beck and call. It can defend its interests from domestic and foreign threats with violent force, with little accountability. — NOS4A2
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