Setting aside all that rubbish, — Gregory
I'll point out to you — Gregory
I'll point out to you that humans have soul (life), reason as its power, and will is element mixed into reason so it can operate. — Gregory
God is an idea we chase — Gregory
Why don't you try and engage with an argument rather than just asserting stuff?
Now, back to the trinity: is there any contradiction involved in the idea that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same mind? No. None. There is no contradiction in the idea that a cube of clay, and a sphere of clay and a pyramid of clay could all be one and the same lump of clay.
What about 'The David', a sculpture by Michelangelo, and a lump of marble in Florence? Could they all be one and the same thing? Yes.
So, there's no obvious contradiction involved.
For some bizarre reason you actually want there to be, so that you can just appeal to mystery (for under that banner, anything goes).
Back as well to your claim that there are things higher than Reason. No there aren't, and I demonstrated why. Either you think there's a reason to think there are things higher than reason - in which case you're confused as you're appealing to Reason's own authority which only serves to establish that there is nothing higher than Reason - or you think there's no reason to think there's anything higher than Reason, in which case you've got nothing to say in support of your claim but are saying it anyway. Which is it? They exhaust the possibilities. But that's an argument and you don't like those.
Re arrogance: a doctor is not being arrogant when they diagnose you with cancer, are they? You reply "but I don't think I do have cancer" and the doctor says "er, yes you do - here is the evidence", and you then reply "don't be so arrogant". That's confused. What's arrogant is not engaging with arguments - not engaging with evidence - but thinking it sufficient that you think something for it to be so. — Bartricks
You don't seem to know how this community, who believes their spirit and state of mind go back to Jesus, thinks. — Gregory
The Gospels make perfect sense as Christian documents. Why are you taking them historically? — Gregory
Most Christians just try to point towards their faith FOR YOU. — Gregory
So, there is no contradiction. It's just a matter of formulating it in a way that makes it acceptable to philosophy in general, not just to Christian philosophers. — Apollodorus
But when you claim their story is inconsistent, you need to back that up and no one on this thread has done that. — Gregory
In fact, there are a number of posters on this thread who are actively trying to shut down the discussion, claiming there is no issue to be discussed at all. FWIW I think there is a discussion, but there seems to be no traction here. — Possibility
A cube of clay and a sphere of clay and a pyramid of clay can all be made of the same clay. A cube isn't a sphere, and a sphere isn't a pyramid. Nevertheless, one and the same lump of clay can be a cube, then a sphere, then a pyramid. So....God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit can all be one and the same mind, even if they have incompatible properties. — Bartricks
That's not the only way a reconciliation could be achieved either. One and the same thing can simultaneously answer to different descriptions (though not incompatible descriptions). Once more: The David, a sculpture by Michelangelo and a giant lump of marble in Florence are all one and the same thing under different descriptions. So, God and Jesus and the Holy spirit could all be one and the same thing under different descriptions. — Bartricks
I have also pointed out - and this is metaphysically interesting and challenges what many theists think about God - that God will not have any properties essentially, for God is all powerful and thus does not 'have' to have any property. Thus any property the person of God has, he does not have to have. — Bartricks
Souls exist in the world. This is what phenomenology proves. God doesn't have a location because he is MORE simple than a soul. He is on another realm of divinity, above spiritual essence. You haven't provided any arguments against this — Gregory
The Trinity explains how God has an equal (two actually) to love. Otherwise a simple God would be a supreme king like Allah instead of pure activity like in the Trinity. Even Aristotle called God pure act — Gregory
What this example demonstrates is that these concepts can all be constructed from the same mind, not that they can BE the same mind - mind being the clay, and ‘being’ occurring in time. But I think I follow what you’re trying to say. — Possibility
Okay, this one is about perceived potential, which gets us away from the temporal issue and allows for simultaneity. — Possibility
Notice how your language has changed here from ‘can be’ to ‘could be’. — Possibility
So, for all your ‘solid’ examples, you should acknowledge that all you have available to build on are shared qualities of human experience in relation to ideas. — Possibility
Here you may need to clarify: are you discussing ‘God’ as a being, as a concept, or as an idea? — Possibility
Like I said, argue something.
We have minds.
Minds are simple objects.
Why?
They're indivisible. Half a mind makes no sense.
If they were divisible, they'd have parts and then they'd not be simple.
They're not divisible, therefore they're simple.
They don't occupy space. Why? Becuase they're simple. If they occupied space they'd be divisible and then they wouldn't be simple. But they are simple and thus they do not occupy space.
Your body occupies space if anything does. But all that means is that your mind is not your body.
God is a mind. So God is simple and God also does not occupy space.
Those are called 'arguments'. — Bartricks
Explain how God's being a simple entity does anything to explain the trinity. — Bartricks
God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. Those are properties of the mind of God. But the mind of God could lose them - could become less than omnipotent, omniscient or omnibenevolent - and still be the same mind, the same person. — Bartricks
You believe you are nowhere — Gregory
Then mustn't you believe than that you have a body? — Gregory
I'm not trying to play therapist, but your position sounds very very strange especially when you factor in that you throw an insult into all you posts — Gregory
but have a super-powerful (maybe today totally powerless) alien watching over you. — Gregory
Because we are en-souled bodies, soul forming the matter into the form human eye can see. We are in a social system on earth, where we relate to other beings. That is how consciousness works. It can't be outside the world unless you are God and God is bound by the law of love. — Gregory
Your idea, which you have no arguments for, is that God is bound by nothing and can annihilate himself. — Gregory
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