Then we can perhaps agree that God is not omnibenevolent. — CountVictorClimacusIII
If we have been created to suffer, and there is no overarching meaning to this life, then it's up to us to create our own meaning and purpose to our lives, thereby reducing our own suffering as much as we can through our own actions. Obviously, within the constraints of what's possible given our circumstances (each being unique to our own place in history and the society we grow into). — CountVictorClimacusIII
Subjective, personal experience perhaps — CountVictorClimacusIII
Basically, following this idea, our lives are a punishment for a "crime" committed by us, even if we do not understand what that crime is / was, and the act of living is solely to serve out our time here, on this "prison" created by a God to punish us for this crime. This is the purpose of our life. To serve our time. — CountVictorClimacusIII
we instead have been designed for a purpose, that purpose being to serve our time in this prison. Therefore we are like the knife, made for cutting things. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Also, God may not have actually created us. Yet, punishes us anyway? We must have really pissed the old man off... — CountVictorClimacusIII
Now, let's assume that indeed this world and our lives are a prison cell. We can't escape it. Surely, we can attempt to alleviate our time spent in the cell then? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Then, I should try to clarify, whether you're a deist, atheist, etc. at the stage of older child to adult, we may feel this feeling regardless (abandoned / alone / lost / despairing) (?), and perhaps we each attribute that feeling to something different, based on subjective / personal experiences and individual beliefs. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Well, to be fair, this was more stream of consciousness flow from the idea posited in God Debris as per my OP. — CountVictorClimacusIII
I've flirted between atheism / agnosticism, and toyed with the idea of pandeism — CountVictorClimacusIII
What are your thoughts on this idea? Are we born from a negation - God's denial of Himself and his subsequent self-annihilation? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Even if I'm wrong on that, I do think the "feeling alone" or "abandoned" is more a misperception, or an "illness" or a failure to appreciate, a lack of gratitude, amazement, wonder and love. — James Riley
the ancient Hindu philosophy of Vedanta and brings out the full force of realizing that the self is in fact the root and ground of the universe.' Watts does bring an element of the 'divine play', the game that Brahman plays by manifesting as the multiplicity, each part of which then 'forgets' its relation to the whole. — Wayfarer
Now, let's assume that indeed this world and our lives are a prison cell. We can't escape it. Surely, we can attempt to alleviate our time spent in the cell then? Of course this would be subjective. A matter of perspective. But within the confines of "serving" our time out, we could at least perhaps, try to make the act of serving that time slightly more pleasant for us. Sure, rebellion might be pointless since there is no escape, but not if we subjectively find meaning in the act of that rebellion - rebellion here being to find beauty in the dissonance of life, to reduce our suffering and maximize our joy. — CountVictorClimacusIII
But, if God had that one nagging question, “what happens if I cease to exist?” - He might then be motivated to find the answer through his own self-destruction. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Or, just as well, some(one) to blame, a Feuerbachian scapegoat ...I have thought that one of the reasons we need God is so we have someone to be grateful to. — T Clark
So [ ... ] the word "grace"? I use it to express 'calm attentive poise' (as in, for example, grace under pressure or graceful dancer) ... Very similiar to how I use terms like grateful & gratitute as a stance but not an address to some invisible sky daddy. — 180 Proof
Otherwise, our in-gratitude signifies taking 'the living – boredom and spite, joys and sorrows, loves and strangers – and the dying' for granted (i.e. neglecting, or denying, that we are called-into-question by these (our) givens).A life, or living, is gratuitous. Whatever anyone does is either a gift or curse (or both). Likewise, oblivion is gratuitous. Are you grateful for these gratuities or not? — 180 Proof
Thus our imperfections mirror His, if he in fact, is not omnipotent, but instead, just a powerful enough being to create life, with that life being as flawed as Himself. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Define morally perfect, or objective morals. What standard are you measuring man to exactly? What makes us depraved? Are we all depraved? How? Why? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Your rehabilitation idea is interesting though. Are we to assume here, that the goal is to elevate ourselves from our depravity? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Ultimately, to find your own meaning and to grow — CountVictorClimacusIII
How is it demonstrably true? I have some idea of where you might be headed, but would rather have you clarify and expand on this idea so I can comment back on it with clarity. — CountVictorClimacusIII
What are these moral standards? Are we talking the ten commandments or a version of such? — CountVictorClimacusIII
Following this idea, it seems we are stuck playing a game of which we don't even know the rules. — CountVictorClimacusIII
The original act of depravity we have committed must have been extreme, for a God to punish us so for eternity. — CountVictorClimacusIII
This God does not seem omnibenevolent at all then. If she were, then wouldn't she seek to rehabilitate us rather than to punish us? Or is this a do some evil for the greater good type scenario? In which case this God is capable of evil. Therefore, cannot be omnibenevolent. A God that freely allows us to wallow in our ignorance, and allows all the evils of the world to occur to us, on random chance (think of children that die too young, or suffer needlessly in isolation and despair in parts of our world that have the lowest of standards of living); is not a benevolent God. The fact that we are left ignorant in our depravity, deprives us of the very opportunity to correct our wrongdoing. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Our existence then is pointless beyond the act of just serving out our time. — CountVictorClimacusIII
And yes, I can see the logic of the form of your argument if we accept the premise as true. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Do you truly believe the world to be wonderful, do you truly enjoy the company of your fellow man, have you shouldered the burden of your responsibility with commitment, passion and love? Do these convictions truly represent you, your beliefs, your ideals, your desires, your motives? If yes, then perhaps you're on the path of inner peace and true harmony with yourself, others and the world around you. — CountVictorClimacusIII
Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. With all our effort. — CountVictorClimacusIII
If God is only a concept then what happens if the concept ceases to exist?
Then of course, there is no God. — CountVictorClimacusIII
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