Ugly people get treated like this every single day. He isn't a creep or a loser. Let's suppose he is average in everything except looks. Unfortunately they didn't let him off easily — Wittgenstein

Can you explain to me just what you're seeing when you watch that video?

I know a number of people from school and college who married, and a lot of the relationships didn't survive long. I think that this is part of the problem of finding connections beyond the immediate. Relating to others is extremely complex, because it involves so much projection. We project so much onto others, and others do this to each one of us.We could ask to what extent is a person really in love with another, or with the image of another? The imagined other may be so different from the actual person.

Love is usually idealized. I have observed this first hand and l think most people can relate. We love what we don't possess in the present moment. It seems love is more about about the journey towards possessing what you love than actually possessing it. It's easy to love when you are separated.

For this reason alone, I can always tell when someone is playing hard to get. For girls, a desperate guy isn't ideal It's simple economics. Your value is determined by the number of people interested in dating you. The sexual market value of a 3/10 female is higher than a 7/10 male.

Don't fall in love though, if you love someone more in comparison to their love towards you, it will be a one sided relationship and you will be begging for attention. You will be the one who is "down" and other party will be the one in control , the "up" side.

All the Prophets God sent were beautiful and handsome. Even if you don't believe in a God , you can sense the importance cultures give to good looks. — Wittgenstein

Sure, there's a long tradition in literature of equating ugliness, old age, and deformity with evil as well. monstrum in fronte, monstrum in animo

No , all there is to life is looking beautiful, the rest will take care of itself. — Wittgenstein

Are you being serious?

For this reason alone, I can always tell when someone is playing hard to get. For girls, a desperate guy isn't ideal in anyways. It's simple economics. Your value is determined by the number of people interested in dating you. The sexual market value of a 3/10 female is higher than a 7/10 male. — Wittgenstein

This kind of thinking might be related to a pervasive cultural trend to treat all kinds of relations as commerical relations, could it not? In which case it wouldn't actually be evidence of anything more profound than the zeitgeist.

Are you being serious?

I wish l was trolling or lying. The appreciation you get for being attractive is on a whole new level compared to the appreciation you get from being intelligent, hardworking etc. For instance, when l lost weight. People started treating me a lot ( a lot ) better. Beautiful people are living life on tutorial mode. I wish we were better than animals and more compassionate, but we are not. It's a sad reality

I am not quite sure how my discussion on the thread has become about love affairs. I have so few, and most of my friends, male or female, are single. I think that may have been more the point which I am making. Relationships, and even friendships can be complicated. So much can be about superficial aspects of existence, or common ground. However, I do have a few of friendships which go back to teenage years, or before, so these are most likely based on deeper connections.

The video shows looks>>>>>personality

People always tell you that personality is the most important factor when it comes to attraction and dating. This isn't true in any way or form. It's useless to approach girls unless you have seen some indicator of interest. Every sexual encounter in all the species is initiated by the feminine gender ( sex ).

Personality ( intelligence, character, ideals etc ) matter later on once you pass a certain threshold of good looks. ( this varies between girls ).

Of course all the people who consider themselves not good looking will get triggered by this OP!
But although I am devilishly handsome I disagree.
Society mainly judges by money,prestige,power,social class. Look at trump and hilary clinton. Both pig ugly dogs.
Both revered by millions.
Social class and money first to the superficial.
@Wittgenstein

This kind of thinking might be related to a pervasive cultural trend to treat all kinds of relations as commerical relations, could it not? In which case it wouldn't actually be evidence of anything more profound than the zeitgeist.

It has always been this way. In the past, the commercial aspect involved politics and tribal relations and the women did not possess a lot of control.

It isn't a worldwide, it is basic biology, we want to produce the best offspring possible. These days, women are in control of the dating market and they want the best looking guy out there to be their bf/husband. I don't see how you can change this.

I am not quite sure how my discussion on the thread has become about love affairs. I have so few, and most of my friends, male or female, are single. I think that may have been more the point which I am making. Relationships, and even friendships can be complicated. So much can be about superficial aspects of existence, or common ground. However, I do have a few of friendships which go back to teenage years, or before, so these are most likely based on deeper connections

This isn't philosophical but in order to be in control of any social relation, you need to keep the PIMP HAND STRONG

Your friends probably agree with me, you can ask them to verify it. It's a common sight these days

You are right , it is

Looks, money and status

But in case you don't know, Instagram thots have turned down world class footballers ( David luiz ). He has status and money but not the looks. On the other hand, anyone with decent looks can easily get status and money through it. This isn't limited to relations. Good looking people get more opportunities which in return allows them to acquire useful skills. It's a self perpetuating cycle

@Wittgenstein Your looking at this too much from the media side.
Look at all the ugly old men with fashion model wives and children.
And look at the porn models who end up with lower class guys in terms of success and wealth.

I agree with you that good looks grease the skids and make life easier, but it doesn't make a person any happier. Also, if you are beautiful and are emotionally invested in your beauty, aging is going to be a bitch. And you're also going to attract people that are only after you because of your looks. Those kinds of relationships aren't fulfilling.

Or perhaps.. all that matters in appearance is society? Hmm? :chin:

The video shows looks>>>>>personality — Wittgenstein

Seeing how the bit from the video is focused entirely on a first impression, where personality never enters the picture, I don't see how it could show any such thing.

People always tell you that personality is the most important factor when it comes to attraction and dating. This isn't true in any way or form. It's useless to approach girls unless you have seen some indicator of interest. Every sexual encounter in all the species is initiated by the feminine gender ( sex ).

Personality ( intelligence, character, ideals etc ) matter later on once you pass a certain threshold of good looks. ( this varies between girls ). — Wittgenstein

Since you don't wear you personality on your sleeve, it's fairly obvious that it would come in later than looks, unless you engage in some elaborate literally blind dating system. That's not the same as one or the other being more or less important. I think these kinds of distinctions more often than not create an illusion of clarity and predictability that simply doesn't hold up in reality. Who ends up dating who depends a lot on contingencies of the situation, mutual expectations etc. It's going to be impossible to isolate "beauty" as an independent factor from this melange.

It has always been this way. In the past, the commercial aspect involved politics and tribal relations and the women did not possess a lot of control. — Wittgenstein

How do you know this? Have you perused the relevant sociological research?

It isn't a worldwide, it is basic biology, we want to produce the best offspring possible. These days, women are in control of the dating market and they want the best looking guy out there to be their bf/husband. I don't see how you can change this. — Wittgenstein

And yet a cursory look around a busy city on a summer day (where there are no CoViD restrictions) would immediately supply you with dozens of counterexamples to this supposedly ironclad law. Now I understand it would be tempting to explain them all away by some contingency, as this line of thinking likes to do. But I think the far more plausible explanation is that while biological urges exist, and looks are a shortcut our brains use to judge the health and fitness of a potential partner, this is merely one factor in a vastly complicated psychological state.

It seems entirely unconvincing to me to dial the clock back to 19th century mechanism when it comes to the dating behaviour of humans. Tempting perhaps, as such simple theories always are.

The starting point of our interaction with others is appearance. Looking beautiful is all there is to success in society. — Wittgenstein

I've inhabited both the blue collar and white collar worlds. Appearance is much more important in the white collar world. I'm using that word broadly meaning one's public image, not just physical appearance. In the blue collar world it's more a matter of, can you do the job or not?

In the blue collar world, if I can fix your toilet for a reasonable price, nobody really cares if I look like this.

Do you suppose that’s where Sartre’s famous dictum ‘Hell is other people’ came
from?

Schopenhauer on the other hand....... ( he didn't hate women for no reason ) — Wittgenstein

Can you please elaborate on this? I'm interested to see what your take is on how he arrived at his views on women.

Also, continuing on with Schopenhauer, he wrote a bit on his views concerning physiognomy. Does the inner life/soul/etc. of a person write itself on the outer appearance?

I wasn't expecting to find lookism here. Good stuff.
Unfortunately the OP has been banned, and I did not find a reason why on Bannings thread :eyes:

Ah, I see. I'm new to the way this forum works (first day). Did you have any thoughts on lookism or the idea that internal character shows itself on the outside?

Welcome to the forum Elysium House! Just a heads up, you ended up replying to a 3 year old post. Check at the bottom of the post in the lower left corner and it will tell you how old it is.

I see that now, got it. :up: I'm very unobservant and practically an internet cave man. Many thanks!

Not a problem! I hope you enjoy your time here.

Contrary to most people, I do think that outside beauty can to some extent reflect inside beauty. However it can also reflect other things, such as narcissism.

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum, internet cave man.

You might like this quote from Oscar Wilde, 1854-1900: It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances. The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible.

Just a heads up, you ended up replying to a 3 year old post. Check at the bottom of the post in the lower left corner and it will tell you how old it is. — Philosophim

Here's another heads up: philosophers are always going back to quote people who have been dead for 2500 years. Just saying...

It seems so to me as well. It can be tricky, but it seems like certain ways of thinking (or being) might lean on certain character traits or at least "mood habits" which correlate with facial muscle movements and whatnot. I can't help but note certain physical traits that distinguish individuals, and often it seems to correctly point to correlating qualities of character.

Again, trying to rely on that could easily lead you to misinterpreting some people who are very much different on the inside than their appearance would suggest. The idea that our inner world has no outward expression seems unlike my personal experience though.

I like that quote very much! Wilde has a lot of good ones. It reminds me of a comedy podcast I heard a few years ago where old writers are brought up as a panel, and comedians play them up to absurdity. They had Oscar Wilde on and he spent the entire time quoting himself.

Thanks for the tips!

More than good or bad looks, I have the feeling, aided by personal experience, that you can determine someone's personality from their face alone. Obviously, it is not fail-proof and not fully accurate, but someone's physiognomy tells you more about someone than ten minutes of conversation —or so I think.