Yeah, I did get sucked into the shit storm a bit, and it's interesting to reflect and think back "why did this person have this affect on me?" Thinking about this question helped me define myself and my values a little better. Every once in a while you'll just come across someone who not just manages to push the right buttons, but to also push them in a certain way. — BitconnectCarlos

Sadly, I am a veteran button pusher myself, with a regrettable degree of talent for such a pointless endeavor. I call it philosophy to dress it up and make it sound grand, important blah blah blah etc. But jerking off does come closer to the truth.

Perhaps I should spend more time doing the real jerking off, that might help. :-)

and it's interesting to reflect and think back "why did this person have this affect on me? — BitconnectCarlos

That's what the other thread is about. You won't find answers there though, just lots of questions and speculations.

Now start your thread on Syria — StreetlightX

But why? None of us give a shit about what's happening in Syria, or there would be plenty of such threads already. If we cared about innocents in Gaza we'd be using this thread to organize something like GoFundMe donations.

The best guide to what we believe, to what we care about, is what we do.

Not what we say.

We've been through this conversation a billion times and I don't feel like rehashing things with you for a 1 billion + 1 time. Have our discussions on this topic been productive in the past or have they just been fighting? We're way too far apart on this issue to communicate productively. I don't understand why you keep engaging me. Is it because you want to change my mind? Is it because you genuinely want to learn something or understand my position? I don't feel like jumping back into the mud today.

Every time you say something that's false on this topic, I'll reply. There's no obligation on you to do the same.

If we are to have a productive conversation on this subject it starts with you condemning Hamas and their methods. Until that happens this discussion is not moving forward.

Recognizing Israeli crimes is not contingent upon talking about Hamas, like, at all.

If we are to have a productive conversation on this subject it starts with you condemning Hamas and their methods. — BitconnectCarlos

Given that there is exactly no chance of that happening....

Now what?

I don't understand why you keep engaging me. — BitconnectCarlos

They don't either.

And what am I doing here? No idea. We, all of us, united in cluelessness.

Given that there is exactly no chance of that happening....

Now what? — Foghorn

It was actually really funny, I gave him an article about how Hamas arrested & imprisoned 3 Palestinian grassroots peace activists for talking with Israeli peace activists over skype or zoom and his response was basically "well it was all done by the books and done very professionally, unlike the Israelis!" :brow:

I guess the "now what" is that we've reached the end of our conversation and we move onto a different topic.

Is it because you want to change my mind? — BitconnectCarlos

Say they did change your mind. Or you changed theirs. Then what?

Nothing. That's what.

We're all beating our tiny brains against a brick wall, and even if we were successful in achieving the victory we seek, it would accomplish nothing. Nothing at all.

I guess the "now what" is that we've reached the end of our conversation and we move onto a different topic. — BitconnectCarlos

I do believe that would be the rational choice. Maybe we'll get lucky and a mod will lock the thread, save us from ourselves. :-)

Well, if you did wish to continue, I suppose one option could be to find another place to have this conversation. I'm not sure where that would be, or if there is such a place that won't devolve in to more of this.

Hmm..... Is there any non-partisan charity which is funneling funds to both Arab and Israeli victims of the recent conflict? A thread which organized support for such a project would be interesting. But then we'd have to be serious, which seems unlikely, so sorry, just another bad idea.

It was actually really funny, I gave him an article about how Hamas arrested & imprisoned 3 Palestinian grassroots peace activists for talking with Israeli peace activists over skype or zoom and his response was basically "well it was all done by the books and done very professionally, unlike the Israelis!" — BitconnectCarlos

The folks you're referring to are in lock down mode. There is no evidence or reasoning which will have the slightest impact on their point of view. In that sense, we've done a good job of creating a Middle East thread. :-)

Recognizing Israeli crimes is not contingent upon talking about Hamas — StreetlightX

You're right. Unless you wish to have credibility. Otherwise, doesn't matter a bit.

The folks you're referring to are in lock down mode. There is no evidence or reasoning which will have the slightest impact on their point of view. In that sense, we've done a good job of creating a Middle East thread. :-) — Foghorn

Damn straight, it's all about who you engage. I have had good conversations here with other posters and even some of the posters who I'd consider less than objective will sometimes still bring up decent points or points that I hadn't considered. My discussions with numerous posters have ran their course but I'm still going strong with one.

What are you on about? Israel is an apartheid state. It dehumanises Palestinians at every point. There is no justification for it. Talking about Hamas till the cows come home will not justify any of Israel's actions.

It was actually really funny, I gave him an article about how Hamas arrested & imprisoned 3 Palestinian grassroots peace activists for talking with Israeli peace activists over skype or zoom and his response was basically "well it was all done by the books and done very professionally, unlike the Israelis!" :brow: — BitconnectCarlos

What's funny is how everybody has such problems with basic reading comprehension. I said in response to your umpteenth tu quoque:

Hmm... Due process afforded after being charged with an actual crime according to local law. That's already a step up from the "administrative" detention of Israel where no charge is laid and Palestinians are in prison for months and sometimes even years. Try again... — Me

So as an example of how "bad" Hamas was (and I therefore shouldn't complain about Israel), you completely failed to realise Israel is much worse in this respect. It's that context in which I made the comment even ignoring the fact that every time you do that is a fallacy to begin with.

I shouldn't have to say this because it should be widely known but Israel does not arrest non-violent peace activists for trying to make connections with the other side and any regime that does is a terrorist regime and a rotten government inside and out. Doing something like that violates the basics.

This is not about Israel.

If we are to have a productive conversation on this subject it starts with you condemning Hamas — BitconnectCarlos

Hamas is small potatoes compared to Assad, and they have no interest in him, so why would they be interested in Hamas? Hamas is small potatoes compared to Saddam, they had no interest in that either. Hamas is small potatoes compared to the Iranian despots, couldn't be less interested. Hamas is small potatoes compared to the Taliban, not on their radar. The corrupt Lebanese leaders have crashed a once beautiful country, no outrage. The Saudis slaughter critics on foreign soil, and saw their bodies up for disposal, and then relentlessly lie about who ordered it. Ho hum, who cares?

China is the biggest dictatorship in the history of humanity. Can't seem to find the outrage thread for that.

Are you seeing a pattern here?

but Israel does not arrest non-violent peace activists — BitconnectCarlos

:rofl:

Israel will not arrest people for communicating with Palestinians in Gaza. It's not my fault you don't understand anything.

Talking about Hamas till the cows come home will not justify any of Israel's actions. — StreetlightX

I'm not justifying Israel's actions. I'm revealing that you don't care about them.

Philosophy. A search for clarity.

Except it does and regularly too.

https://theintercept.com/2021/05/24/israeli-police-round-palestinian-protesters-global-attention-fades/

China is the biggest dictatorship in the history of humanity. Can't seem to find the outrage thread for that. — Foghorn

Try the Hong Kong thread.

Israel will not arrest people for communicating with Palestinians in Gaza. — BitconnectCarlos

Sorry that you literally have no clue what you're talking about and/or are an outight liar:

According to the Israeli police report on 25 May 2021, at least 1550 were detained in Israel since 9 May 2021. The overwhelming majority of detainees were Palestinian citizens of Israel or from Jerusalem. The majority of those detained were released following high fines and financial guarantees, or on the condition that they cannot return to their neighbourhoods for periods of time and/or home arrest, highlighting the arbitrary nature of their arrest. Random arrests took place in the streets and public arenas during repression of protests, as well as during home raids and attacks on families, where many children were detained. In addition to the physical violations of the rights of child detainees,many children were subjected to threats, denied access to legal counsel,interrogated in a language that is not their mother tongue and for prolonged periods, including at night.

Between 24 and 25 May 2021, Israeli police carried out a retaliatory campaign of mass arbitrary arrests against Palestinians in Jerusalem and Palestinian citizens of Israel, under the announced “Operation Law and Order.”In its statement, the Israeli police highlighted that the aim of this campaign is “to settle the score” with Palestinians for their political positions and activities.Dr. Hassan Jabareen, general director of Adalah said “These raids are intended to intimidate and to exact revenge on Palestinian citizens of Israel –‘to settle the score’ with Palestinians, in the Israeli police’s own words –for their political positions and activities.” At least 250 Palestinians were detained in those two days, with a particular focus on demonstrators, activists, and minors. Israeli authorities submitted 150 indictments against Palestinian detainees, the majority of which related to charges of assaulting police personnel, participating in protests, throwing stones, incitement, and harassment of the police

https://www.alhaq.org/cached_uploads/download/2021/06/05/210531-final-website-current-escalation-of-israel-s-systematic-arbitrary-arrest-and-detention-campaigns-against-palestinians-1622892678.pdf

And that's just in the last two months.

No it doesn't and it's obvious you just perceive Israel as Nazi Germany or something along those lines and I don't have the time or effort to dispel that notion.

My discussions with numerous posters have ran their course but I'm still going strong with one. — BitconnectCarlos

There are good discussions to be found here. Maybe not on this topic, but many others.

It's possible this topic could be addressed constructively somewhere else, but I don't know where. Should you find such a place, I'd welcome an invite.

@Foghorn, here's the deal. If you continue to post in order to simply silence discussion about this topoic, or continue to question the motives of those who post on the basis of whataboutsisms, I will delete your posts. Simple as that.

Not the same thing. These arrests were in response to violent protests and weapons stockpiling.

Nope. Those arrests were state terrorism engaged to shut down discontent over Israeli mass murder in Gaza.

Yes, and FDR is Hitler and so is Obama and you're the only one in this world who has any semblance of moral decency.