Hmm.. aren't greenhouses good for the environment? It is a "green" gas. That's good for nature. Having a hot climate like a the dinosaurs did sounds great! Maybe our climate can change to a more dino-like biosphere. — Kasperanza
It's worth paying attention when 97% + scientists, around the world, are telling us we have about 12 years to get a move on things. It's also worth opening your eyes to what's happening right now. If you want more literature or references, I'll be happy to give them. — Xtrix
The thing is though is that most climate scientists aren't really saying we only have "12 years" to save the world. The people who are giving this "12 years" slogan are journalists who in my opinion don't actually have the proper credentials or time to sift through dense papers and technical models on the climate. — Albero
Here is a paper published and peer reviewed by several sociologists who specialize in human geography, climate change and public policy who disagree with the 12 year deadline idea. — Albero
And here is Michael Mann talking about doomism and its dangers:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-shift-tactics-to-inactivism/ — Albero
You have a right to feel urgency about it, but all I'm saying is that the science shows the most extreme and out there scenarios aren't even on the table anymore thanks to the pledges. A 4 degree rise was once a possibility, but the current rise is projected to be 2.5 degrees by 2050 and is expected to lower even more as pledges ramp up in the coming years — Albero
Yeah this isn't fear mongering being used to grab political power. — Kasperanza
Doomed implies it’s inevitable. Which justifies doing nothing, since we’re doomed anyway. — Xtrix
don’t expect you to understand the difference, so just go back to sleep. — Xtrix
Well, then we should not say that the goal is to save the World, but just to say to help us and the few next generations of humans after us.I'm talking about human life, not general biological life. So in case that wasn't clear, there you go. Yes, bacteria will probably go on without us. That's little consolation to me, my grandkids, or my great-great grandkids. — Xtrix
A holistic view is sometimes quite important. You see, if you start from thinking about yourself and then come to conclusions to what to do, you might not think about the broader effects your actions do.That doesn't provide perspective at all, really. Not if we're talking about human life. Because, if you notice, we haven't been around that long. Behaviorally modern humans, maybe 200 or so thousand years. Better to look at that record. Also best to take a look at what scientists say about this and why it's important. — Xtrix
Better than building rabbit-proof fences, yeah. This mentality is what I was thinking of btw:
— Kenosha Kid
@KasperanzaI mean yeah there's all this science, but what are we supposed to do about it? Just cut out fossil fuels without a real replacement? To me that's scary. Epstein's point is that fossil fuels protect and enhance people's lives. Fossil fuels protect people from heat waves. And yet the environmentalists want to limit them. I find it to be worrisome.
This is very typical in my experience. It'd be like trying to ban guns in the US, people would just lose their minds. — Kenosha Kid
I don't know of any legit scientists who say we're doomed either way. — frank
But you realize that this is a long-term problem? — frank
Well, then we should not say that the goal is to save the World, but just to say to help us and the few next generations of humans after us. — ssu
Business as usual and we're not dead? Or are you thinking just of yourself?If we continue business as usual? Yes, then we’re dead.
— Xtrix
No. — frank
He says there is no reason — frank
My point, again, is that the issue is not death, but suffering in life (much including the suffering caused by the death of loved ones, and the like). — javra
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