• Tom Storm
    9.1k
    They say, lifelong atheist Philosopher, A.J. Ayer had converted to a Christian just before his imminent death. Could religion combat the fear of death? Could it be, in the end, what had been invented for?Corvus

    The idea that religion was invented to manage our fear of death has become a cliché, probably since Bertrand Russell wrote this about it almost 100 years ago.

    “Religion is based primarily upon fear.... Fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death."
    Why I am Not A Christian

    I've found it interesting how many people drop their faith when dying. Having worked with people in palliative care over the years, it's also common to find people loosing interest in religious answers and theism when dying. This includes clergymen.

    I think it can be the case that we fear the death of other people more than our own - children, parents, friends. In the experience of humans over millennia, death has often been sudden, premature, inexplicable and tragic. Loosing your young children was a very common experience until recent times in the West. This also leaves a cultural and psychological legacy.
  • Corvus
    3.2k
    Sure, dyings might not have the mental ability to care about religion at the time of dying. But could it not be the living who invented the religion knowing that it is the most powerful tool to manipulate human fear, which is death, and preaching to the people, that the only insurance ticket for securing the afterlife is blind faith and obedience to the religious regime?
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    Russell addressed this 100 years ago as have a million others, along with Russell neophytes.

    My point is: you raised Ayer - that when dying some people turn to God. I was simply saying the opposite is also the case.

    In death we learn nothing much.

    the living who invented the religion knowing that it is the most powerful tool to manipulate human fear, which is death, and preaching to the people,Corvus

    You make it sound like a screenplay being contrived for an umpteenth Spielberg/Hanks movie collaboration.
  • Corvus
    3.2k
    You make it sound like a screenplay being contrived for an umpteenth Spielberg/Hanks movie collaboration.Tom Storm

    Just to make a point that those who are dying imminently wouldn't go out and start inventing religions. It would be those who were the livings had invented them thousands of ancient years ago, and kept passing the tradition to the generations and generations in the same field. :D
  • Corvus
    3.2k
    My point is: you raised Ayer - that when dying some people turn to God. I was simply saying the opposite is also the case.Tom Storm

    I think Ayer has converted to Christianity near his death, but when he was still in good mental state being aware of his upcoming death. He was NOT in the hospice or in death bed when that happened.
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    Well yeah, religions develop, grow and change over time and they wax and wane. Many have perished and the gods with them.
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    He was NOT in the hospice or in death bed when that happened.Corvus

    Not sure how much time you've spent in palliative care. In most cases people are mentally robust and are still quite strong. Their death might be weeks or months away and sometimes they go home for a bit and return. Most of them are well able to make decisions. Some are in denial because the decline hasn't started. Some give up in depression. Some turn to God. Some drop God.
  • Corvus
    3.2k
    Not sure how much time you've spent in palliative care. In most cases people are mentally robust and are still quite strong. Their death might be weeks or months away and sometimes they go home for a bit and return. Most of them are well able to make decisions. Some are in denial because the decline hasn't started. Some give up in depression. Some turn to God. Some drop God.Tom Storm


    I was caring for my dying father in the hospice for 3 months, and witnessed the dying process.

    He seemed to be going through a lot of illusions, fantasies and dreams and past memories coming back to him.  He was a very faithful Christian before being ill, and very active in the Church too. But a few months before his death, he was not talking about anything religious at all.  He kept talking about a lot of nonsensical things, as if he was seeing some ghostly figures in front of him.  His mind was gyrating between conscious to unconscious constantly. Sometimes he could not even recognise people, but sometimes he talked as if he was all OK just like he used to when he was healthy.  But his mind, for sure, was slowly fading away. It was as if the whole of his bodily health condition which was failing his mind.  Dying is the worst tragedy in human being.  It is the saddest thing.  I had been in deep mental shock and trauma for at least a year or even more after the experience of losing my father.

    I suppose some people can then turn to religion for help in the situation.  I, having been an agnostic most of my life, didn't get any help from anything. Then I turned to the Metaphysical topics readings, which helped to some degree, and brought me here and some other Philosophical forums (not too active).

    I am still an agnostic, but thinking of taking a position of flexibilism. = taking all the sides when convenient. :D
  • Tom Storm
    9.1k
    Dying is the worst tragedy in human being.  It is the saddest thing.Corvus

    It's just part of life but we seem it take it badly for the most part. I had a similar experience with my mother who had bone cancer. It's a cruel way to go. She stopped believing in God in the year before she died. Modern Westerners are pretty sheltered from the experience of death and give it a status it doesn't really deserve, I think.
  • MikeListeral
    119


    we are all hedonists who love pleasure and fear pain

    birth and death are just the beginning and end of this process

    so the beginning and end of pain and pleasure

    or perhaps pain and pleasure will continue after death, nobody knows forsure
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