It started in the 1980s. Read David Harvey's Brief History of Neoliberalism — frank


I haven't yet, but this is the second time it's been recommended to me. Look forward to getting around to it. — Xtrix

You're an extremely angry person. It's gonna get worse after you read that

Well, sometime in the future this hole system based on debt might need drastic "restructuring". — ssu

The financial sector has become a giant tumor. I'm not sure the patient's going to survive. :grin:

That may be.

A Crack-up Boom is surely a possibility that is happening just now. Doubling the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve IN ONE YEAR has to have effects. Last time it was during the 2007 recession. How many more times will it work? Inflation is picking up, yet hyperinflation is a totally different creature. And the monetary velocity is plunging. At least with the lockdown.

Balance sheet of the Federal Reserve:


A financial collapse could spell doom for the two-party system. After the pandemic lockdown the last thing the American voter wants is a repeat financial crisis (or the same one coming back). At least it would be a severe political crisis under any circumstance. Basically the US would start to resemble more and more Mexico and less Canada. Yet it should it be noted that the doomsayers have been predicting imminent collapse since 2007 (or earlier). That's fourteen years ago.

You're an extremely angry person. — frank

Seems like an odd thing to say, but OK.

"The United States Republican Party" is the enemy. Not of us in the sense of us v. them - that would be a tragic mistake - but in the sense of being anti-American, "American" taken it its best sense, and opposed by Republicans in any and every decent sense. The GOP, if it is to survive at all, must be scoured and washed and hung out in the sun to dry. Every lie called out, every viciousness exposed, every crime indicted and prosecuted. Not easy, perhaps, but necessary. Decency and indulgence is a luxury the decent cannot always afford with the indecent.

:100:

Doesn't that seem childishly black and white? As if the other side isn't equally corrupt?

There are some philosophical differences, otherwise people are people.

Seems like an odd thing to say, — Xtrix

Why odd?

Narcissism — Banno

I'll stand by this.

While narcissism is also apparent in the Democrats, it is perhaps not as institutionalised there as in the Republican Party.

The obsession with self leads to the rejection of the very notion of a common wealth; that sharing has nothing in it for me. Narcissism sits behind the desire for small government - the simplistic view that a smaller government taxes less, or otherwise impedes me less. Narcissism sits behind "Self-sufficient families, founded on the traditional marriage of a natural man and a natural
woman", the family being seen as no more than an extension of the self, as my property.

Doesn't that seem childishly black and white? As if the other side isn't equally corrupt? — frank

No, Frank, it does not. We are not talking about "the other side." We are talking about fascist nationalist racist evil. The truth has a liberal bias. Good does not sit around and give the benefit of the doubt to King George, Jefferson Davis, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Emperor of Japan, Adolf Hitler, Donald Trump or any other worthless POS. The Republicans made their bed when they threw Elizabeth Cheney under the bus. She was the last conservative Republican. She was the last straw. She was their last chance. They can't un-fuck that mess. True conservative Americans need a new party. They don't need to jump in bed with "the other side". But they need to disown America's enemies. They need a real leader.

The obsession with self leads to the rejection of the very notion of a common wealth; that sharing has nothing in it for me. — Banno

Yet conservatives are pretty generous when it comes to private aid to communities. There are three religious charity groups where I live. They're busy feeding, clothing, and providing medical care while the state legislators appear to be most successful at getting federal aid to people who don't need it.

The truth has a liberal bias. — James Riley

Does it?

Does it? — frank

Yes.

'kay

The truth has a liberal bias. — James Riley

:up:

Not to say that 'liberals' don't have their own vices and blind-spots - sure as hell do - but the 'conservative' movement in the USA has become so utterly corrupted by lies and falsehoods that it is incapable of standing for anything other than the lust for power and conniving ways to get it. They have utterly, completely and totally repudiated the Constitution and the principle of democracy, bedazzled by the TV ratings they presume their 'reality show' leader will get them. (Honorable mention to Adam Kinzinger and the other lone voices trying to stand up for actual Republicanism.)

Doesn't that seem childishly black and white? As if the other side isn't equally corrupt? — frank

As in?

:100: (return the favor)

so utterly corrupted by lies — Wayfarer

Where they lose me on the Big Lie is the fact they disavow numerous different court decisions from numerous different judges in numerous different jurisdictions, many of which have a known conservative bent, and some of which were even appointed by Trump. That is a Q-level conspiracy that would have those judges towing a line. And Q is indisputably bat shit crazy.

They Big Lie dummies had the Executive so that's off the plate. Congress is corrupt, so I will throw them that bone. And the media does lack credibility, so they've got that too. But to say the judiciary somehow is overlooking the notion that Trump won the election? That's just fundamental stupidity.

I often wonder why Congressmen/Senators don't stand up on their hind legs and call out the base (Trump is beyond hope). I know some of the legislators disagree with the base, and I know some of them are willing to lose their seat on principle. So the only thing remaining that would keep them from standing up is personal threats of physical violence against them or their family. That I can understand. I would hope the FBI would be looking into that as much, or more than even the January 6 BS.

If you can make an otherwise honorable legislator tow your political line under threat against them or their family, then you are irretrievably a villain and should be dealt with summarily.

But if it's not that, then fuck 'em.

Trump is obviously delusional on a grand scale. He’s managed to get through life with enough people believing in his fantasy world to empower him, so he just keeps going, with his idiot enablers being sucked into the wake. He’s the pied piper leading them all off into a fantasy land. The best and only hope is that he and his boosters just keep loosing at the ballot box despite all their attempts to rig them.

Speaking of which, https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/12/politics/texas-democrats-washington-voting-rights/index.html

Yeah, but where's the victorious hegemon that's going to begin the process of denazifying the US the way the US had begun denazifying Germany (& Western Europe) several decades ago? The metastasis doesn't excise itself, y'know.

I think there's a section of the media, like MSNBC, whose practices mimic Fox news. They draw a crowd for the same reason Fox does: they provide a reason to become angry. Not saying they manufacture news, but they dose it with a lot of spin.

The effect is the same: to be hooked into the news, is to be in emotional turmoil. People on both sides believe their anger is justified.

The question is: is this something new? Or Is it business as usual, just with increased speed due to the quick access people have to the group-think? I think it's probably the latter.

John Stuart Mill, who was a member of Parliament for a time, famously or infamously said:

“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives..."

When pressed to explain his statement, he replied:

"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. Suppose any party, in addition to whatever share it may possess of the ability of the community, has nearly the whole of its stupidity, that party must, by the law of its constitution, be the stupidest party; and I do not see why honorable gentlemen should see that position as at all offensive to them, for it ensures their being always an extremely powerful party . . . There is so much dense, solid force in sheer stupidity, that any body of able men with that force pressing behind them may ensure victory in many a struggle, and many a victory the Conservative party has gained through that power."

I can't say that I agree with Mill when it comes to those who once were Conservatives here in God's Favorite Country (though there's always been a Birchist streak), but I wonder whether this may be true of what the Republican Party--the party of the Big Lie, Trump, "election reform," anti-vaxxers, evangelicals, etc.--seems to have become.

In war and peace, ultimately death, whether of bad germs or bad people. Means and speed depending on circumstance. And law. It would be nice to have laws against Trump and people like. But there have always been people like, and like most afflictions, forgot when cured. And such laws likely worse than what they cure.

Really, then, an intractable problem so far as solution, except as a permanent battle that appears to be intrinsic to the system. But as with any brute engine, there must be possible refinements. In the case of Trump and his, however, I'm thinking it's just existing laws that should have been enforced. And assuming he's been breaking them for decades and his father before, it leaves the question as to why they were not enforced. The moral of the story being to enforce the laws.

If everyone were taught analytic and critical thinking, then we would welcome stupidity as a form of diversion, entertainment, humor. From Kremlin-planted division, to cable news, to Q; it would all be harmless; laughable; teachable. But when people are uneducated in thinking, they think education in thinking is all about what to think, as opposed to how to think. Therein lies the danger: anti-intellectual fear of fact. You can't even get them to want to learn how to think because they think they are being brainwashed. Doh!

In America (and probable elsewhere as well), the Bernie Madoff Principle applies: the rich & powerful elites only get prosecuted, even convicted and imprisoned, when they flagrantly steal from and/or harm other rich & powerful elites. :shade:

Moral: tr45h should have quit the race for the nomination during the GOP primaries when his campaign learned that the Obama administration (ergo also the DLC, RNC, PRC, NATO & EU intelligence services, et al) was on to his campaign's collusion with the Russians. Not 20-20 hindsight either. Willingness to cheat other GOP elites and their not fake-billionaire backers in broad daylight made the tangerine douche DOA ... even after, for protection, he bribed his elite victims with $1.5 trillion dollars in tax cuts (the only piece of significant legistlation the GOP-controlled Congress allowed tr45h during his squalid term – did you notice that?)

The hometown & state long knives are out and decades of partisan and elite payback are coming due because lil fat stupid orange Donnie shat where he ate one too many times – on the world stage no less! It seem to me a good bet this obese grifting hate-spewing Kovid Killer Klown will meet the undertaker before he meets his new soap-on-a-rope buddies in a state or federal prison near you. Either way I'm confident he won't get what he so richly deserves on this side of the grave. Them's the perks.

Either way I'm confident he won't get what he so richly deserves on this side of the grave. Them's the perks. — 180 Proof

This is true. Even if he got a real cell, instead of a golf-course spa prison for rich people, he'd still have Secret Service guys standing outside his cell making sure bubba didn't make him his bitch. There is no justice, especially when it comes to the likes of him.

Doesn't that seem childishly black and white? As if the other side isn't equally corrupt?

There are some philosophical differences, otherwise people are people. — frank

No, Frank, it does not. We are not talking about "the other side." We are talking about fascist nationalist racist evil. The truth has a liberal bias. Good does not sit around and give the benefit of the doubt to King George, Jefferson Davis, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Emperor of Japan, Adolf Hitler, Donald Trump or any other worthless POS. — James Riley

So the history that Jefferson Davis was from the Democratic Party is totally unimportant here? It doesn't matter what a political party was for earlier (before the parties switched voters)? I'd still think that both parties have their own skeletons in their closet. You can just argue that one has more than the other.

In America (and probable elsewhere as well), the Bernie Madoff law of the jungle applies: the rich & powerful elites only get prosecuted, even convicted and imprisoned, when they flagrantly steal from and/or harm other rich & powerful elites. — 180 Proof

You should not forget the most important thing with Madoff: He pleaded guilty basically immediately and did not plea bargain with the government. When the person is so exhausted from upholding the ponzi scheme, that he voluntarily gives it up....then US laws are enforced. Hooray.

A lot of similar con men just waited for the stocks to recover...and didn't go to jail. In fact, nearly nobody else went to jail (unlike back in time with the Savings & Loans crisis).

So the history that Jefferson Davis was from the Democratic Party is totally unimportant here? — ssu

Yes, it is totally unimportant. You see, the United States Republican Party used to be liberal and the United States Democrat Party used to be conservative.

It doesn't matter what a political party was for earlier (before the parties switched voters)? — ssu

No, it does not. The OP said "What about today?"

Republicans like Trump because he hates the same people they hate. It's all about the hate. I was quite the hater until I saw them do it, and then, not wanting to be like them, I decided to try to love my enemy. Jeesh! What a long hard slog that is! It's so much easier to hate. And, I have to admit, I kind of like hating. But I do want to put as much distance between me and them as I can, which means I have to try and love them. Yikes! — James Riley

Don't "love your enemies", because what comes of it is not love, it's passive aggressiveness.

Looking at the Republican Party philosophically, my question is this: what do they stand for, at bottom? I’m talking about the leaders. For years it’s been tax cuts and claims of wanting smaller government.

What about today? — Xtrix

Social Darwinism, as always.