Yeah, that the noise is more fundamental – deeper – than the signals.

Yeah, that the noise is nore fundamental – deeper – than the signals. — 180 Proof

Noise is signals.

Information is the fundamental stuff - For all intents and purposes it is our bedrock of reality.

Only "a nothing" can provide "no" information. Everything else provides information of its nature - we know it's nature through the "information" we have of it.

(It will move or else you can click on it to get it to move.) — PoeticUniverse

cool! :up:

Noise is signals. — Pop

Okay. :rofl: Have a good one.

Noise is signals.
— Pop
Okay. :rofl: Have a good one. — 180 Proof

Noise is information

Wikipedia:
Types of noise
Signal processing noise can be classified by its statistical properties (sometimes called the "color" of the noise) and by how it modifies the intended signal:

Additive noise, gets added to the intended signal
White noise
Additive white Gaussian noise
Black noise
Gaussian noise
Pink noise or flicker noise, with 1/f power spectrum
Brownian noise, with 1/f2 power spectrum
Contaminated Gaussian noise, whose PDF is a linear mixture of Gaussian PDFs
Power-law noise
Cauchy noise
Multiplicative noise, multiplies or modulates the intended signal
Quantization error, due to conversion from continuous to discrete values
Poisson noise, typical of signals that are rates of discrete events
Shot noise, e.g. caused by static electricity discharge
Transient noise, a short pulse followed by decaying oscillations
Burst noise, powerful but only during short intervals
Phase noise, random time shifts in a signal

Have you ever considered whether information is the fundamental stuff? — Pop

Anton Zeilinger, in a famous statement concluded, "Randomness is the bedrock of reality", after proving it in his state of the art laboratory to a degree of 3-sigma or more.

I concluded it on the cheap by noting that the bedrock can't have any inputs to it, although I still hesitate to admit 'random'… because what is it that makes a Geiger counter not beep in between its 'random' beeps? …

I once visited the Library of Babel to see if it had any information. It contains every possible book. This entire forum was in there, too.

PDF: https://theomarkhayyamclubofamerica.files.wordpress.com/2021/07/vault-8.5x11-jpg-150-dpi.pdf

Video:

Anton Zeilinger, in a famous statement concluded, "Randomness is the bedrock of reality", after proving it in his state of the art laboratory to a degree of 3-sigma or more. — PoeticUniverse

Quantum Information and RandomnessJohannes Kofler and Anton Zeilinger

Abstract:
"In this regard, in 1999, one of us (A.Z.) has put forward an idea which connects the concept of information with the notion of elementary systems. For the subsequent line of thought, we first have to make ourselves awareof the fact that our description of the physical world is represented by propositions, i.e. by logical statements about it. These propositions concern classical measurement results. Therefore, the measurement results must be irreducible primitives of any interpretation. And second, that we have knowledge or information about an object only through observations, i.e. by interrogating nature through yes-no questions. It does not make any sense to talk about reality without the INFORMATION about it."

My bold and Caps. It is very simple. Consciousness only processes information. Nothing else. For this reason alone, information has to be the fundamental stuff - of course it is a co-element, not existing on its own

information has to be the fundamental stuff — Pop

… In the Library of the Cosmos


Writing the Prosaic Cosmos

Capability Information is the energy/gravity
that papers the covariant quantum fields
that ink the particles of the standard model
that stroke the alphabet letters of the atoms
that word the dictionary molecules
that phrase the biotype DNA cells
that verb the subjects
that sentence the creatures
that paragraph the species
that story the ongoing tree of life
that books the literature of the unified-verse
that libraries the Cosmos.

Programming the Universe:



(Shows some pictures I took while on vacation in our developing Universe—
or else I had the best telescope and microscope.)

I watched the entire video. It is excellent! A little slow moving in this context,but I would recommend it to everyone.

What can I say? It is a very impressive body of work you have.

I do agree that energy can probably be seen as the underlying aspect behind existence, and it is likely that it is evolving. And, indeed, this works for a realist or idealist perspective of mind.

It does not make any sense to talk about reality without the INFORMATION about it. — Pop

(Seeking the Ultimate Information of the Library of Everything)

The Poetic Universe

It appears to us that the world consists
Of parts continuing on from a moment ago,
And thus retain their identity in time;

Yet, matter likely only appears secondarily
As a congealed potentiality gestalt.

The sun is not the same sun as it was
A trillionth of a second ago that does.
To us a semblance of the ‘sun’ remains.

There are no objects that are identical
With themselves over time, and so perhaps
The temporal sequence remains open.

Nature is then no longer seen as clockwork,
But only as a ‘possibility gestalt’,
The whole world occurring anew each moment.

The deeper reality from which the world arises,
Acts as a unity as an indivisible ‘potentiality’,
Which can perhaps realize itself in many ways,
It not being a strict sum of the partial states.

We are both essence and form, as poems versed,
Ever unveiling this life’s deeper thirsts,
As new riches, from strokes, letters, phonemes,
Words, phrases, and sentences—uni versed.

We have rhythm, reason, rhyme, meter, sense,
Metric, melody, and beauty’s true pense,
Revealed through life’s participation,
From the latent whence into us hence.

Informationally derived meanings
Unify in non-reductive gleanings,
In a relational reality,
Through the semantical life happenings.

Syntactical information exchange,
Without breaking of the holistic range,
Reveals the epic whole of nature’s poetics,
Within her requisite of ongoing change.

Thus there’s form before gloried substance,
Relationality before the chance
Of material impressions rising,
Traced in our world from the gestalt’s dance.

All lives in the multi–dimensional spaces
Of basic superpositional traces
Of Possibility, as like the whirl’s
Probable clouds of distributed paces.

What remains unchanged over time are All’s
Properties that find expression, as laws,
Of the conservation of energy,
Momentum, and electric charge—unpaused.

The weave of ‘it from bits’ as the strokes writes
The letters of the elemental bytes—
The alphabet of the standard model,
Forming the words as the atoms whose mights

Merge to form molecules, as phrases,
Onto proteins and cells, as sentences,
Up to paragraphs of organisms,
And unto the stories of the species.

In this concordance of literature,
We are the Cosmos’ book of adventure,
As a uni-verse of sentient poems,
Being both the contained and the container.

A poem is a truth fleshed in living words,
Which by showing unapprehended proof
Lifts the veil to reveal hidden beauty:
It’s life’s image drawn in eternal truth.

I am very impressed by the poetry and images you have been putting on the thread. I especially like the picture 'Seeking the Ultimate Information of the Library of Everything' because the endless piles of books on desks and all over the floor is how I end up. In the room I lived in until last year, I ended up not having a floor, and only a path to get to my bed. I am trying to not get my current one in the same state. But, the picture you have created cheers me up, in seeing the issue as being connected to the quest for the ultimate information about existence and everything.

poetry — Jack Cummins

Poems are renderings of the soul’s spirit,
The highest power of language and wit.
The reader then translates back to spirit;
If the soul responds, then a poem you’ve writ!


(All Done Searching for the Answer to Everything)

Remember that GIFs move if you click on them.

I do agree that energy can probably be seen as the underlying aspect behind existence, and it is likely that it is evolving. And, indeed, this works for a realist or idealist perspective of mind. — Jack Cummins

Energy ( electromagnatism ) is the fundamental stuff of physics. We have knowledge of it through the information we have of it. So really it is "energy and information" that is fundamental. Energy and information is equal to matter ( E=mc2 ). Physics has traditionally tried to understand the world in terms of matter in motion, but an alternative way to understand it ( more relevant to philosophy ) is as energy and it's information. In this view, as energy interacts it creates more information, and subsequently everything there is, is due to this, and becomes a process of energy interacting and accumulating and integrating information. So, everything becomes a system that is in the process of accumulating and integrating information, including us. The only difference between these self organizing systems is the complexity of information they are composed of ( can memorize ), and manipulate and integrate.

In this energetic paradigm, everything is made of energy and is composed of the information it has accumulated. Does this make sense to you?

Everything is Mind, and Mind is always learning, creating, and changing.

Now, for the origins of Mind/Light? I may be able to perceive such a thing, but it will require a completely different understanding and perspective of the nature of nature.

The Poetic Universe — PoeticUniverse

This must be the first scientific poem I have ever seen. Artistically its an interesting idea.
I think you've got the gist of it. We may quibble over a few details, but not many.

Everything is Mind, and Mind is always learning, creating, and changing. — MondoR

What is it learning , creating, and changing? Is it information?

What is it learning , creating, and changing? Is it information? — Pop

It is the nature of Mind/Memory. It is what transpires and takes shape.

It is the nature of Mind/Memory. It is what transpires and takes shape. — MondoR

I agree. What I was trying to get at is that mind only deals with information. What it is learning, creating, and changing is information. No?

I agree. What I was trying to get at is that mind only deals with information. What it is learning, creating, and changing is information. No? — Pop

Mind has Memory (information), but it also is imbued with a creative impetus. Information, without a creative impetus cannot change.

Mind has Memory (information), but it also is imbued with a creative impetus. — MondoR

:up: That would be emotion / feeling driving the integration of information, thereby creating a self organizing system.

:up: That would be emotion / feeling driving the integration of information, thereby creating a self organizing system. — Pop

It would be more than emotions/or feelings. It is Creative. Emotions and feelings are derivative of the creative impetus.

This must be the first scientific poem I have ever seen — Pop

Onward and similar… 'To the Quantum Depths of the Poetic Universe':

From quantum non-locality and entanglement, we know that information is more primary than distance, and that things don’t have to have the appearance of being near each other to be related or to cause an effect.

Everything connected to everything would seem to be a ‘perception’ as far as one could be had by that network. The all-at-once connections, as like in a hologram, would seem to provide for for the direction of what goes on in the overall information process. I am thinking like a yogi and a guru, the entire cosmos situated within me.

Quantum non-locality seems to imply that every region of space is in instant and constant contact with every other, perhaps even in time as well, and so the holistic universe is governed by the property of the solitary whole; so that could be the underlying guidance principle. An individual particle might ‘know’ something about what to do, acting according to all the others.

Thus both our consciousness and the holistic universe, each having a singular nature, is the clue. Maybe they are of the same basis of fundamental consciousness, but separate as two manifestations, each controlling a different realm, such as internal and external, our internal consciousness giving us ‘future’, and the external consciousness granting ‘future’ to the universe. I don't know which has the tougher job.

Lee Smolin has it that qualia are intrinsic, as fundamental, and Chalmers has it that information is fundamental and can express itself in two ways, in consciousness and in matter.

Quantum entanglement suggests that each particle has the entire 3-D or 4-D map of the universe, the information ever updated, the universe being as a single entity. While this may not be consciousness at the level we have, it may help the universe accomplish something of the movements of particles and fields in their energy, mass, and momentum, in some global way that goes forward overall. This may not seem to be saying a whole lot, in depth, but since the quantum realm is beneath everything then one would surmise that it must have all to do with everything that goes on.

It is still that the apparent atoms and molecules make the happenings, via physical-chemical reactions; however, this observation cannot be equated to an 'explanation', for we must wonder what underlies the chemical mattering and reacting that seems to have a unity of direction to it.

…

more:

PDF: https://theomarkhayyamclubofamerica.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/quantpoe-8.5x11-jpg-150-dpi.pdf

Thus both our consciousness and the holistic universe, each having a singular nature, is the clue. — PoeticUniverse

I think so. At the heart of every "self" is a universal. That universal would have to be something like the anthropic principle - the combined laws of the universe, or put another way - the cause of integrated information in the universe.

Chalmers has it that information is fundamental and can express itself in two ways, in consciousness and in matter. — PoeticUniverse

Yes, information creates physical structure and mental structure, but for a monist they are identical, where mental structure is neuroplasticity.

Quantum entanglement suggests that each particle has the entire 3-D or 4-D map of the universe, the information ever updated, the universe being as a single entity. While this may not be consciousness at the level we have, it may help the universe accomplish something of the movements of particles and fields in their energy, mass, and momentum, in some global way that goes forward overall. — PoeticUniverse

Yes I think so. It looks like a self organizing system. But there is only so much we can conclude, from so little information. I try to keep my speculation fairly local, to things that I can reasonable cross verify.

It is still that the apparent atoms and molecules make the happenings, via physical-chemical reactions; how–ever, this observation cannot be equated to an 'explanation', for we must wonder what underlies the chemical mattering and reacting that seems to have a unity of direction to it. — PoeticUniverse

A system understood as energy and information self organizing in relation to other systems made of the same stuff doing the same thing, and thus accumulating information in the process, where the accumulated information creates the form of the system, is how I have come to understand it. It is the only understanding that I am aware of that captures everything.

It would be more than emotions/or feelings. It is Creative. Emotions and feelings are derivative of the creative impetus. — MondoR

What creates the emotion / feelings, requires a theory of emotion. I agree with you, I suspect it is something like what I wrote to creative universe. What do you suspect?

Artistically its an interesting idea. — Pop

Something like 'All of life’s entities embrace one another, including cells, organisms, species, and biotope' could add to the scientific aspect.

What creates the emotion / feelings, requires a theory of emotion. I agree with you, I suspect it is something like what I wrote to creative universe. What do you suspect? — Pop

Emotions are way of sharing and experiencing, just like the other senses. For some reason, people tend to differentiate them into different categories. Probably because some types of experiencing are more directly tied to a physical nervous systems.

Something like 'All of life’s entities embrace one another, including cells, organisms, species, and biotope' could add to the scientific aspect. — PoeticUniverse

Could be, I would have said interact - things arise from interactions with other things. Interrelational evolution is the only game in town, as far as I can see.

Emotions are way of sharing and experiencing, just like the other senses. For dinner reason, people tend to differentiate them into different categories. Probably because some types of experiencing are more directly tied to a physical nervous systems. — MondoR

We don't have a universally accepted theory of emotions. What they are has been interpreted in various ways. I see them as a force like quality that we feel - this feeling provides impetus to self organize. In my understanding consciousness = self organization.