with regards to energy expenditure compared to return, they likely make more than Jeff, per hour. — Book273
you said jeff makes 800/hr. — Book273
But hey, Maybe in the UK it takes 30+ hours a week to fill out the benefits paperwork, so 10/hr. Not so awesome then. — Book273
It kind of feels like minimum wage should be made livable that a person working 40 hours a week should require no public assistance — TiredThinker
If everyone has an extra $1000/month for rent and there is no increase in available housing and there is no increase in rents, the available units will quickly be filled to 100% capacity and there will be no place to live despite the extra money in your pocket. — fishfry
If the price of water goes way up, people are incented to supply more water. — fishfry
...Which is it? — Isaac
The only way to make such a system work long term, is to give everyone free money and simultaneously implement rigid price controls. And then you create shortages. — fishfry
...Why would you need price controls? Supply would just go up do meet demand and so bring prices back down. Or it wouldn't (because people can conspire to limit supply), but then the same would happen with water.
Basically, what's different between houses (where you predict a rise in prices will lead to shortages) and water (where you predict a rise in prices will will met by a rise in supply and so even out)? — Isaac
The problem (in our country, anyway), is not that people can't afford rent, it's that their inability to afford it is covered by the state. Since it's not in the state's best interests to just let people go unhoused (it needs a ready-to-work workforce in 'reserve' to accommodate economic growth), it has to pay landlords where the unemployed and low wage earners can't afford to. The landlords know this and so set the rent accordingly. — Isaac
Prices are not set in a vacuum. If I have figs to sell in the market, I don't pick a price point at random and then see how they go. I pick a price point using my knowledge of the world. I know figs are quite common, I've bought them myself in the past etc. In a world where there was a minimum wage system in place, that would be one of the bits of information about the world I would use to set my prices. If I put my prices so high that some people can't afford them, the RPI would go up, minimum wage would go up, corporation tax and wages would go up to cover it, and I'd end up making a loss. — Isaac
All minimum wage is is a system for ensuring that there's no economic gain to be had from a corporation pricing it's essential goods beyond that which it's lowest paid workers can afford. — Isaac
If they do, the system simply corrects the wage to meet it so no increase in net profit is possible that way. Profits have to be made on luxury items instead. — Isaac
Housing is highly illiquid. If you give everyone more money and impose rent control, rents will rise and many people will be unhoused. If you let prices float upward, it won't help much because you can't truck in new housing. — fishfry
the government is freezing rents and bailing out landlords. Making an absolute sucker out of anyone who scrimped and saved to honorably pay their rent. That's a big problem with bailouts, moral hazard. It makes a fool out of anyone who actually paid their debts. — fishfry
Historically, free markets do better than controlled economies in terms of vibrance, growth, doing business, and establishing the right price. Controlled economies lead to misallocation of resources.
To be fair I'm now arguing an Austrian economics position about which I know the buzzwords but not the details. I should probably quit while I'm behind here because I'm already in a bit over my head. — fishfry
But if you set the rate too high, especially in a world with a huge surplus of unskilled labor, you create massive unemployment. Which you solve with welfare programs, again making a sucker of anyone who works for a living. — fishfry
I'm sure you remember the famous story of the luxury tax on yachts passed 30 or so years ago by the US Congress. — fishfry
bailouts, moral hazard. It makes a fool out of anyone who actually paid their debts. It incents people to be deadbeats — fishfry
I say if you don't work, you don't eat. — Book273
As opposed to your "everyone gets a free ride" approach, wherein the main qualifier is the ability to breathe, with or without assistance. Apparently in your world no one ever has to actually think about where the money comes from, it just magically shows up, and will never result in decreased purchase power or any other economic side effects. — Book273
I have an issue with the poor having a nicer cell phone than I have, better medical coverage, a nicer apartment, and larger tv, despite not actually working. Meanwhile I scrimp and save and my taxes pay for the stuff they have that I can't afford. Homeless people have better dental and pharmacy coverage than I do, and all of us have the same level of medical coverage. The street-walking crack addicted prostitute has better medical coverage than the nurse that treats her in the hospital. — Book273
did answer the thread. I said No to the living wage/ handouts. — Book273
If everyone stops working where does the money come from for your handout supply? — Book273
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