Last I checked, nepotism is still going strong.A socio-economic argument against incest is that if everything "stays within the family", the family will have less influence over other people in the community, thus weakening socio-economic cohesion.
— baker
I don’t think it’s common for any family to have any involvement or influence in the community in this modern age to begin with. — TheHedoMinimalist
Then this here is a clue to some underlying assumptions for why people marry: I think strategic alliances to improve one's socio-economic standing have been the main motivator for marriage throughout history, and still are nowadays, once people mature a bit.I think most people interact with the community to put food on their table more so than anything involving romantic relationships.
It would have a considerable effect for those involved. Historically, this is one of the reasons why some for of incest was practiced by royal families. For those families, it was important to stay in power and to increase their power, and marriage was a strategic tool for this. As needed: sometimes, to keep the power all in the family, a marriage between close relatives; other times, marrying outside the family for political and economic gains.I guess I should also point out that seems highly unlikely that incest would ever be so widespread in any society that it would have this sort of big macro effect.
No, but those rates being higher would be something to consider when trying to estimate the frequency of incest. If no children are born from a relationship, then it can be harder to prove a relationship exists at all; assuming that incestuous couples are more likely to try to hide their relationship.Again, we'd need to consider the miscarriage rate and the abortion rate, as compared to those rates in the normal population. I imagine they are both higher in the incestuous population.
— baker
I don’t think those are overly high either. I think older couples that try to have children also have really high miscarriage rates but I don’t think you would use that as an argument against them having children. — TheHedoMinimalist
It's about reasonable expectation. Having a child at all does not lead to a reasonable expectation that the child will have genetic defects. Having a child with your own sibling or parent or offspring does. — Kenosha Kid
I don’t understand why we hate incest if we acknowledge that homosexuality is ok — TheHedoMinimalist
If so, one only has to read the book of Genesis to realize that if humamity started off with one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve), incest was/is inevitable. — TheMadFool
So in the face of that, it can be hard to believe in the principle that incestuous couples are more likely to produce genetically defective offspring. — baker
I pointed this out to a Catholic once, and she was deeply offended and called me immature and disrespectful. There appears to be an unwritten agreement that the biblical account is not to be taken literally. — baker
It would have a considerable effect for those involved. Historically, this is one of the reasons why some for of incest was practiced by royal families. For those families, it was important to stay in power and to increase their power, and marriage was a strategic tool for this. As needed: sometimes, to keep the power all in the family, a marriage between close relatives; other times, marrying outside the family for political and economic gains — baker
If so, one only has to read the book of Genesis to realize that if humamity started off with one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve), incest was/is inevitable. — TheMadFool
Question 1. Suppose you're a straight person held at gunpoint. Your captor gives you two choices. Either sleep with someone who's the same sex as you (homosexuality) or sleep with your child (incest). (Ignore the possibility that your child is the same sex as you in which case you would be an incestuous homosexual). What would you choose? — TheMadFool
if it’s enthusiastic consent then I don’t think it matters much either way. — TheHedoMinimalist
You mean to say homosexuality = incest — TheMadFool
Not really, I’m saying that homosexuality and incest are morally equivalent unless certain practical considerations such as the risk of pregnancy are mentioned. Saying that something is equivalent isn’t the same as saying something is identical. For example, 10 dimes are monetarily equivalent to a dollar bill but they are obviously not the same thing as a dollar bill. I don’t think it matters who you have sex with unless someone can mention some kind of a practical reason for why you maybe shouldn’t have sex with a particular person. — TheHedoMinimalist
if it’s enthusiastic consent then I don’t think it matters much either way — TheHedoMinimalist
So in the face of that, it can be hard to believe in the principle that incestuous couples are more likely to produce genetically defective offspring.
— baker
Because one couple didn't? This is doing statistics wrong. — Kenosha Kid
The idea that the biblica sacra is to be interpreted metaphorically was at the back of my mind but that point of view does more damage to the Abrahamic triad than my accusations of incest, no? Much of the evidence for God, miracles to be precise, wouldn't amount to much if it were all symbolism. — TheMadFool
Taboos tend to have to do with things that people are assumed to want to do, but which collective social wisdom says it would be better not to do it.Putting births aside, incest is extremely hardwired in most cultures (all?) as being unacceptable. If it weren't for the babies part, what makes it feel repugnant? — Manuel
But that's because you don't have the Holy Spirit inside you and you don't understand things properly!$#632""!!! — baker
Every person takes the limits of their own field of vision for the limits of the world. — Arthur Schopenhauer
Can you state the circumstances in which your statement (above) is true? — TheMadFool
I just don’t think that incest is inherently bad in any way — TheHedoMinimalist
Public opinion about a topic isn't based on statistics, but on what comes through as the most vocal. — baker
The popular perception of incest is what this thread is about. — baker
So in the face of that, it can be hard to believe in the principle that incestuous couples are more likely to produce genetically defective offspring. — baker
I have no issues with that. However, your OP is about justifying incest using homosexuality by claiming the two are equivalent and if one is permissible, there are no grounds on which to object to the other. This argument is unsound because homosexuality isn't equivalent to incest. — TheMadFool
I actually changed my mind about the truthfulness of my OP after having a conversation with darthbaracuda. I think he/she pointed out a meaningful practical difference between incest and homosexuality. Just out of curiosity, what downside do you think comes with incest that you think would tip the scales to make incest worse than homosexuality? — TheHedoMinimalist
any meaningful difference between homosexuality and incest — TheHedoMinimalist
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