What I am saying is that when arbitrarily taking givens, it would seem very hard as a hard-necked atheist to refute the whole of the new testament. — JACT
Surely, there must be something worth keeping here even for the most radical? — JACT
Men on a lower level of understanding, when brought into contact with phenomena of a higher order, instead of making efforts to understand them, to raise themselves up to the point of view from which they must look at the subject, judge it from their lower standpoint, and the less they understand what they are talking about, the more confidently and unhesitatingly they pass judgment on it. — Leo Tolstoy
Shakespeare can not be recognized either as a great genius, or even as an average author."
Tolstoy certainly didn't have much trouble passing judgment, with confidence and no hesitations. — Tom Storm
the less they understand what they are talking about, the more confidently and unhesitatingly they pass judgment on it. — Leo Tolstoy
Surely, there must be something worth keeping here even for the most radical? — JACT
*awww*Men on a lower level of understanding, when brought into contact with phenomena of a higher order, instead of making efforts to understand them, to raise themselves up to the point of view from which they must look at the subject, judge it from their lower standpoint, and the less they understand what they are talking about, the more confidently and unhesitatingly they pass judgment on it.
— Leo Tolstoy
:up: Amen to that. — Wayfarer
That's what is called 'cynicism'. — Wayfarer
I'm reminded of that scene from Legally Blonde. — baker
I've become inclined to think that this is actually what spirituality is all about, and what it means to be spiritual -- but sans the anxiety.I've heard variations on Tolstoy's assertion for decades too. People who chase higher consciousness and unification with the divine are often crass, status seeking individuals, as wracked by anxieties and ambition and as willing to scorn their 'inferiors' as any other group. — Tom Storm
It's not cynicism. I grew up in a traditionally Catholic country where it is normal for the priest to have illegitimate children, or a least be an obvious glutton or drunkard. I guess it's hard for an outsider to understand how ordinary this seems to us. So when I got older and saw other spiritual leaders get involved in scandals with sex, drugs, money, and guns, this seemed nothing out of the ordinary. But what gets to me is how they make excuses and justifications for being that way. I understand that people routinely don't live up to what they preach, and I don't take much issue with it. It's when they invent justifications for being that way that I can't quite stomach it. But what is the absolute deal breaker for me is blasphemy. I just can't get past that. For example, I can get past a Theravada Buddhist monk handling money, drinking alcohol, or having a girlfriend, but I just can't get past it if he doesn't have a respectful attitude toward Buddhist sacred objects. Like if he bows to a Buddha statue in haste, or puts the paper with a Dhamma talk on the floor. I feel a visceral revulsion then, I see such a person as someone toward whom to keep an absolute distance.I've been through periods of cynicism myself. Like when I discovered Chogyam Trungpa had died of alcoholism after I'd been telling everyone how great he was, and when that book about Krishnamurti's affair with Rosalind Rajagopal Sloss came out. That would have been in the early 90's, I think or maybe it was the 80's. I also had an encounter with infamous guru Adi Da, mainly through his books, although did actually even go and meet his emmisaries, before the scandal broke. — Wayfarer
How did you realize that?? By implication?A lot of what goes on, or at least some of it, in that space is delusional and self-seeking, that's for sure. But ultimately, I realised there must be a real dimension to it. 'Without gold, there would be no fool's gold' is an oft-quoted saying.
It's good to use poles, so that the arms do some of the work.I hadn't heard of 'nordic walking', although I intend to do a bit of bushwalking myself the next couple of months, we have lots of nice trails in our area.
The question is, can you refute the whole of the Koran or the whole of the bhagavad gita or the whole of the Book of Mormon or the whole of any scripture from any given religion? All holy books rely on a similar type of justification - the truth in book form. — Tom Storm
A lot of what goes on, or at least some of it, in that space is delusional and self-seeking, that's for sure. But ultimately, I realised there must be a real dimension to it. 'Without gold, there would be no fool's gold' is an oft-quoted saying.
How did you realize that?? By implication? — baker
I am just wondering if the atheist won't be in problem here? What I am saying is that when arbitrarily taking givens, it would seem very hard as a hard-necked atheist to refute the whole of the new testament. Surely, there must be something worth keeping here even for the most radical? — JACT
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