I don't get why you're going in to bat for him. — Wayfarer
I marched against Vietnam in 1972. Trump's election is a far greater threat to the world order than that was. — Wayfarer
That is why, when challenged in the courts, it was immediately suspended, and, note, it has now vanished altogether from the public discourse.. — Wayfarer
But Hanson is right. It makes sense to place some sort of a moratorium on immigration from countries whose populations we have little to no information about and which house large numbers of terrorists. These same countries were being watched by the Obama administration as particularly dangerous. — Thorongil
The thing is, no terrorists have been coming to America from these countries. Most terrorists in America come from America, what a surprise. If you want to stop terrorism in America, then focus on American terrorists. — Metaphysician Undercover
But why limit travel from countries where terrorists have not been coming to America from? — Metaphysician Undercover
Why would you choose to take what he said that literally and then proceed to offer several articles covering certain events that happened today? Do you honestly think he's going to dispute that they are reporting on real events? — Thorongil
No I didn't. — Thorongil
My original comment was about how I thought the claim that Trump is a liar is overblown. He doesn't generally lie. He speaks untruth he genuinely believes in. — Thorongil
Do you actually read any right leaning sources? — Thorongil
See, this is sheer hysteria. What the hell has he done that's so bad? The man's an arrogant, liberal New York businessman — Thorongil
If he's consistent — Baden
it doesn't qualify as "fake news". — Baden
What other adjective X comes closer to covering the spirit of what Trump was trying to do? — Baden
Can't you see how serious that is? — Wayfarer
you no doubt recall the crowds shrieking 'Lock her up' at the Republican National Convention last year. Do you remember what the alleged crime was, for which she was to be 'locked up'? — Wayfarer
He collects rent from foreign governments, against the Constitution. — Wayfarer
I think it's the case that you don't understand what's happening. — Wayfarer
I read Mary Eberstadt, David Brooks, Ross Douthat — Wayfarer
building trade barriers — Wayfarer
increasing racial discrimination — Wayfarer
tearing up the Dodd Frank act — Wayfarer
abolishing environmental protections — Wayfarer
destroying the health insurance industry — Wayfarer
What's to like? — Wayfarer
You didn't answer my question. Why did you choose to interpret his remarks hyper literally? — Thorongil
It's my understanding that Trump uses this phrase to talk about the excessive vitriol and bias directed against him in the mainstream media. You seem to be taking it literally, once again. — Thorongil
I think it's the case that you don't understand what's happening.
— Wayfarer
Which is what? The inauguration of Hitler? I can almost see the froth on your mouth from here. — Thorongil
Right, it's a philosophy forum, where we're supposed to respect each other, and yet you hypocritically proceeds to insult others and accuse their ideas to be "low quality" and "thoughtless" because they don't agree with you. Then you'll start complaining "Argh Agustino, he's so nasty" - but I'd merely be responding in the same tone that you respond.This isn't the Alex Jones Youtube channel, it's a philosophy forum, and it's this kind of low quality thoughtless statement that makes people put you on their ignore list. — Baden
Yes, however, you're too categorical and literalist in reading what I said. What I said can be translated in more accurate terms as most of what the media reports is false - say 90% false and 10% true.Let's presume you really believe that most of what news outlets such as CNN report has "nothing to do with reality" and is creating a "fantasy world". — Baden
No I didn't say this. I said they falsify the news that they report by exaggerating them, reframing them, and so forth.These journalists didn't learn to report news at their colleges and universities, they just sit at home making stuff up, or what? — Baden
No they're not, because they're reframing those events howsoever they want. There are no context-less facts.If your answer is "yes" to these questions, then guess what, this is not "fake news", CNN is reporting reality. — Baden
Yes they are. Take the travel ban on what was it, 7 countries or so, which was immediately framed as a Muslim ban. That's fake news. There was no Muslim ban.They are not just making things up and "creating a fantasy word" — Baden
And? Shouldn't she be locked up? There has probably never been a more corrupt family in American politics than the Clintons - they have their hands in all the pies.Speaking of hysteria, you no doubt recall the crowds shrieking 'Lock her up' at the Republican National Convention last year — Wayfarer
No, HE doesn't, his businesses do. So it seems you too are engaged in the propagation of fake news.He collects rent from foreign governments, against the Constitution. — Wayfarer
Fear mongering.I don't get why you're going in to bat for him. I marched against Vietnam. Trump's election is a far greater threat to the world order than that was in my view. — Wayfarer
Just like how it was beyond debate that Crooked was a corrupt liar, and yet you kept reciting New York Times propaganda?It is indisputable - beyond debate - that Donald J Trump frequently lies, dissembles, exagerrates, and engages in other falsehoods. — Wayfarer
It shows. The NY Times - probably the most liberal-progressive source of articles out there. Someone sent me an article on dating from them awhile ago, it was disgustingly false and propagandistic.I read NY Times and Washington Post online — Wayfarer
Then you'll start complaining "Argh Agustino, he's so nasty" — Agustino
What I said can be translated in more accurate terms as most of what the media reports is false - say 90% false and 10% true. — Agustino
No they're not, because they're reframing those events howsoever they want. There are no context-less facts. — Agustino
I said they falsify the news that they report by exaggerating them, reframing them, and so forth. — Agustino
You're not nasty, you're just a very unintelligent liar. — Baden
idiotic things you're saying — Baden
What did I say?trivially stupid your approach is. — Baden
Seems like I was right.Right, it's a philosophy forum, where we're supposed to respect each other, and yet you hypocritically proceed to insult others and accuse their ideas to be "low quality" and "thoughtless" because they don't agree with you. — Agustino
Actually no, I didn't dismiss them as context-less. Anyway, when you decide to uphold the very rules that you yourself advocate, and treat others with respect, I may reply to you again."context-less" — Baden
No, it's a way of respecting the rules of the forums, whatever they are. I haven't set them anyway. But if you expect me to respect them, then you should respect them yourself. I can't delete your posts, but you can delete mine - so that asymmetry pretty much ensures you can insult me as much as you want, without me being able to insult back. So fine, you can go ahead with that if that's what you want, enjoy the authoritarianism. But I'm here just to discuss the ideas, not really trade insults anyway.And further, I presume this new found sensitivity of yours is just a way to avoid answering the question. — Baden
No, it's a way of respecting the rules of the forums, whatever they are. I haven't set them anyway. But if you expect me to respect them, then you should respect them yourself. I can't delete your posts, but you can delete mine. — Agustino
So fine, you can go ahead with that if that's what you want, enjoy the authoritarianism. But I'm here just to discuss the ideas, not really trade insults anyway. — Agustino
you have to find excuses for him like he's just too dumb to know what he's saying is false or he shouldn't be taken literally — Baden
I have no problem admitting that both of them are liars because it's demonstrable. You can take their speeches and find the falsehoods. They're right there. Why is it so hard for you? — Baden
No, that America has elected a narcissist and congenital liar as President. No, he's not 'like Hitler'. If that is your standard for bloody awful, then I guess what you've picked is OK. — Wayfarer
We're not living in some apocalyptic, gas chamber filled Orwellian hellscape and nothing he's done even remotely suggests we're headed in that direction, despite the best efforts of the media and those on the left to say that we are. — Thorongil
What the hell is your problem? I never implied, nor wish to imply, that Trump never lies. I merely wanted to point out that a lie is different from telling an untruth and that I thought Trump was guilty more of the latter than the former. — Thorongil
No, we're not and if you've read other stuff I've said about him, you'd know I know that. But you took the word tyranny that I used "hyper-literally" to use your own phrase, which is fine the first time - I knew when I wrote it it was somewhat of an exaggeration - but I did specify later that I meant it in the narrow sense of what he's doing with the media. He's not going to get away with much more. — Baden
The issue is not whether Trump ever lies, everyone lies sometimes, it's whether or not he can be characterized as a liar. You seemed to be suggesting that was in dispute. If you're not, fine. — Baden
Because they may come to America from said countries? Duh. — Thorongil
Take the travel ban on what was it, 7 countries or so, which was immediately framed as a Muslim ban. That's fake news. There was no Muslim ban. — Agustino
You and Wayfarer seem way too emotional when it comes to Trump, which clouds your judgment of him and those on the right. Look at what he's done and then make a judgment. — Thorongil
Name me a president who wasn't a narcissist and a liar. And it's your side that keeps painting him as a horrible, awful dictator. — Thorongil
---“Think about it,” he said in a talk hosted by the Institute for Human Dignity. “Not one criminal charge has ever been brought to any bank executive associated with 2008 crisis.” He warned against “the Ayn Rand or the Objectivist School of libertarian capitalism,” by which he meant “a capitalism that really looks to make people commodities, and to objectify people.” Capitalism, he said, ought to rest on a “Judeo-Christian” foundation.
---When Mr. Bannon came to Hollywood, [in 1990s] Ms. Jones [a co-writer] says, he was less political. For two years, according to Ms. Jones, the two of them worked on the outline of a 26-part television series about seekers after the secrets of the human self, from Arthur Conan Doyle to Nietzsche to Madame Blavatsky to Ramakrishna to the Baal Shem Tov to Geronimo. “It was his idea,” she said. “He assembled all the people.”
But the Sept. 11 attacks, Ms. Jones says, changed him, and their collaboration did not survive his growing engagement with politics. Speaking of his films, she says, “He developed a kind of propaganda-type tone of voice that I found offensive.” Ms. Jones is a literary person, left-liberal in politics. She regrets that Mr. Bannon “has found a home in nationalism.” But she does not believe he is any kind of anarchist, let alone a racist.
Those focused on Mr. Bannon’s ideology are probably barking up the wrong tree. There are plenty of reasons for concern about Mr. Bannon, but they have less to do with where he stands on the issues than with who he is as a person. He is a newcomer to political power and, in fact, relatively new to an interest in politics. He is willing to break with authority. While he does not embrace any of the discredited ideologies of the last century, he is attached to a theory of history’s cycles that is, to put it politely, untested. Most ominously, he is an intellectual in politics excited by grand theories — a combination that has produced unpredictable results before.
Most ominously, he is an intellectual in politics excited by grand theories — a combination that has produced unpredictable results before.
If by this century you mean the last 100 years, you just don't know what you're talking about. Do you know who Augusto Pinochet was?! Do you know who Pol Pot is?! Really I feel that many people here know very little history, not meaning this in an insulting way. I mean if you consider Trump to be so much trouble, then you really have no idea how most of human history has been like...In this century, nobody comes near Trump in those stakes. — Wayfarer
Yeah, but nothing approaching the apocalypse, so you can cool your jets. — Thorongil
Do you know who Augusto Pinochet was?! Do you know who Pol Pot is?! — Agustino
Name me a president who wasn't a narcissist and a liar. — Thorongil
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