The OP refers to a particular manifestation of the general project of economic democracy, or stakeholder socioeconomics as an alternative to shareholder capitalism (e.g. Mondragon Corporation or any network or federation of viable cooperatives). — 180 Proof
You make it sound attractive, but democracies are messy and making and moving on decisions can be ordeals. Look at the problems with the infrastructure bills. But I'm naive on the subject. — jgill
About the famous corporation: Basque Country signed a very important deal with the spanish government in 2002 where they let them have their own “taxation system”. Thanks to this, they develop an own work and economic plan, completely apart from Spain.
I am not saying with this Mondragón is a fake issue. I believe a lot in Basque people, they are heavy and responsible workers. But... we have to admit they have some advantages that other regions don’t. — javi2541997
Sometimes I feel is not worthy at all. It is true that here any hospital will leave you in the street for not having an insurance but at the same time there are many folks who are using the healthcare system everyday without working. — javi2541997
You're from Spain?
True, you get free healthcare -- and some people who don't work also get it. But isn't that how it should be, as a basic right? — Xtrix
Better to just make it free all around, and so you have far less debt, far better health outcomes, and far less expensive treatments. — Xtrix
We blabber on about our love for democracy. — Xtrix
And take it up to 10 000, 100 000 and million, then again you have different mechanics taking over. Representation becomes the norm and organized representation through political parties emerge. The issues get quite abstract: it's not about the old tree that might fall down next to the road 5 km form here. It's about services in general.Most towns reluctantly gave direct participatory democracy up when village / city populations became too large. It's one thing for less than 100 people to attend a town meeting; 1000 people attending becomes too cumbersome. — Bitter Crank
We blabber on about our love for democracy. Yet what can be less democratic than a capitalist corporation? Why is that acceptable? — Xtrix
The American idea of democracy — baker
Seen this by me, as a foreigner, I also interpret it as a real open minded and free thinker country. It is not only about power due to votes. It is also about criticism and debating.
You all can criticize Joe Biden if you want due to their administration or whatever. — javi2541997
It's an idle freedom. — baker
Sometimes, public and universal wealthcare can be an oasis. It is not as good as it seems. It is true that is basic right that everyone deserves. But, at the end of the day the vaccines were developed by countries which also reinforce the private sector as UK and USA. What Spain has made about the pursuing of vaccines despite the public wealthcare system? Nothing... So the public expenditure is not good at all. — javi2541997
We have "free around" hospitals but our health outcomes are not better than yours honestly...
Why all the rich Spaniards go to the USA to treat their serious sicknesses as cancer? Most of them end up in Los Ángeles or Dallas. Think about it...
Everything free is not the solution. — javi2541997
I can't wrap my head around the fact that democracy is considered the best form of government — TheMadFool
Industrial democracy, where workers make the decisions about how the workplace will be operated and towards which end, is an alternative to capitalism. Given modern communications and computational facilities, I see no problem in the workers of many different industries planning and coordinating with other workers in other industries.
Of course this would not be simple. It isn't simple now, but it gets done every day, more less, better and worse. — Bitter Crank
Most of the technology that developed did not come out of the private sector, but the public sector. — Xtrix
Why do some rich Spaniards go to the USA? For the same reason rich people all over the world send their kids to Harvard and Yale. The USA has some of the best schools and doctors in the world -- if you can afford it. Likewise, Beverly Hills is pretty nice -- if you can afford it. So what? — Xtrix
The American idea of democracy, as far as I understand it, is about obtaining a position of power through the majority of votes. This is how a capitalist corporation can be democratic. — baker
Personally I wouldn’t want to work at a cooperative because I would have to conform to the decisions of the majority, whether I agreed with them or not. That, to me, isn’t “by the people, for the people”, but “by the majority, for the majority”. — NOS4A2
But I’m sure it would be a nice place to work for the conformist. — NOS4A2
There's also no reason business has to play such a big role in society in general, especially in terms of owning the government -- which should be of, by, and for the people (supposedly). — Xtrix
Yet what can be less democratic than a capitalist corporation? Why is that acceptable? — Xtrix
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