Naturally Iran is out of this picture now after their famous revolution. — ssu
By the way, what changes would you like to see? — Apollodorus
Russia rejected the EU as undemocratic? ? ? When? Who? Must have been Vlad who has said that. Yeah, he's so worried about democracy.The EU was rejected as undemocratic by Europe’s largest economies, Russia and England. — Apollodorus
By whom? The Rockefellers?Germany which was under enemy military occupation was ordered to join. — Apollodorus
Again who?France was pressured to join. — Apollodorus
For example: I completely do not understand why despite the fact, we are the most tourist country of the world, most of the Spaniards lack of English skills. Can anyone explain this to me? — javi2541997
Russia rejected the EU as undemocratic? ? ? When? Who? Must have been Vlad who has said that. Yeah, he's so worried about democracy. — ssu
Spaniards have plenty opportunities to learn better English with the help of the social media and other communication technologies? — Apollodorus
I was once told by Swedish students that the reason they speak such good English is that they watch English-language movies with Swedish subtitles. — Apollodorus
But do you think better English would improve Spain's unemployment figures? — Apollodorus
then carried out numerous executions once in power - not just communists, but liberals and centrists of all stripes. The aim was to roll back any progressive forces forever. — RolandTyme
And describing the 1945 Labour government as "filled with communists and socialists" is similarly not accurate — RolandTyme
it was Britain’s socialist Labour government and France (that was dominated by socialists and communists) that were opposed to Spanish participation in the Marshall Plan. — Apollodorus
The Labour Party is a Socialist Party, and proud of it. Its ultimate purpose at home is the establishment of the Socialist Commonwealth of Great Britain
By applying the moral principles of Socialism to our relations with other peoples, the Labour Government has made Britain a symbol of justice and social advance.
We believe that the socialist [actually, Marxist] axiom "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is not for home consumption only.
We never thought, or promised, that the job of ending poverty, at home as well as abroad, would be an easy one. But to do this job is part of our dedication as Socialists
The aims set out in this manifesto are Socialist aims, and we are proud of the word.
The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party and proud of it.
The Fabian Society is delighted to congratulate Keir and Angela on their election as leader and deputy leader of the Labour party. We are incredibly proud to see two of our most talented Fabian Society members take charge of the British opposition
The 1880s saw an upsurge in socialist activity in Britain and the Fabian Society was at the heart of much of it. Against the backdrop of the Match Girls’ strike and the 1889 London Dock strike, the landmark Fabian Essays was published, containing essays by George Bernard Shaw, Graham Walls, Sidney Webb, Sydney Olivier and Annie Besant. All the contributors were united by their rejection of violent upheaval as a method of change, preferring to use the power of local government and trade unionism to transform society.
The early Fabians’ commitment to non-violent political change was underlined by the role the Fabian Society played in parliamentary politics. Having initially sought to influence the Liberal and Conservative parties, the Fabians participated in the foundation of the Labour party in 1900. The society has been affiliated to Labour throughout the party’s history and is the only original founder that remains affiliated in unchanged form.
But, I always been so lucky to have parents with money, so them paid me for four years in a row a private English teacher every Sunday. This helped me a lot to improve not only my English skills but the ability to speak in public. — javi2541997
How could I, because Marshall Plan or even the ECSC isn't the EU. You wrote EU so I couldn't know you were referring to Stalin. Indeed, again a chap who was terribly worried about the state of democracy. Who wouldn't when they got over 100% of the vote (by other regions voting for him too).You are not paying attention, are you?
It was Stalin, not Putin. I was talking about the Marshall Plan and the ECSC that formed the basis of the EU. — Apollodorus
Again no. Of course, the other occupation regions don't matter, right?Germany was controlled by US military governor McCloy who was a lawyer with close links to the Rockefellers. — Apollodorus
In fact, this article what you refer to actually makes well my point extremely well.See OSS, CIA and European Unity: The American Committee on United Europe, 1948-60 — Apollodorus
Again no. Of course, the other occupation regions don't matter, right? — ssu
Whether Germany will in the future be a benefit or a curse to the free world will be determined, not only by the Germans, but by the occupying powers. … Our own stake and responsibility is also greater. Now is the time for French initiative and leadership of the type required to integrate the German Federal Republic promptly and decisively into Western Europe … We have also reserved to ourselves in the occupation statute very considerable powers with respect to the action of the German Federal Republic … These difficult problems involve direct and indirect interests of our own, and in most of them we have grown accustomed in the past four years to making decisions for the Germans … We could, of course, take the attitude that, having given to the Germans the Occupation Statute, we should wait for clear and definite evidence on the part of the Germans of behavior in accordance with our expectations. Can we afford to do so, in view of the shortness of time still at our disposal? … I believe that our policy in Germany, and the development of a German Government which can take its place in Western Europe, depends on the assumption by your country of leadership in Europe on these problems … I repeat that our own stake in this matter is very great. We here in America, with all the will in the world to help and support, cannot give the lead. That, if we are to succeed in this joint endeavor, must come from France.
And the Soviets funneled to their favorite parties money too.And you seem to have left out the inconvenient bits in the article, like US cash being funneled through the CIA to pro-unification organizations, etc. .... — Apollodorus
Maybe you are forgetting that the Deutsche Mark was introduced in 1948? :smirk:The British and American Zones merged in 1947 and were joined by France in 1949. The Americans had the supreme military command as well as the money, remember? :grin: — Apollodorus
Maybe you are forgetting that the Deutsche Mark was introduced in 1948? — ssu
In any case, I haven’t seen any evidence that Franco was a “Nazi” or "racist" or anything like that? Though I could be wrong. — Apollodorus
There was a wide range of different factors involved and it would be wrong to paint everything as just "Fascism". — Apollodorus
Franco was a patriot who wanted to preserve Spanish culture. — Apollodorus
Another thing I have noticed is that Spaniards in general like to be Spanish and something else at the same time, which is why you hear them saying things like “I am Spanish and Andalusian”. — Apollodorus
How did they manage to preserve a language that is totally different from other European languages, or from any other language? — Apollodorus
In September 1949, at one of the periodic meetings of the Allied Occupation Powers in West Germany (Dean Acheson, Ernest Bevin and Robert Schuman), Acheson put a gun to Schuman’s head, asking him to outline a common policy for West Germany at the next Foreign Ministers’ meeting with the implication that, if Schuman did not, the US would have to define a policy with or without the French
Foreign Relations of the United States, 1949, Council of Foreign Ministers, Sept. 13With respect to German participation in international organizations, this problem will no doubt arise early in the Political Affairs Committee, where the French may be the most difficult obstacle. Therefore, any information on Schuman’s attitude would be useful to us
Foreign Relations of the United States, 1949, Council of Foreign Ministers, Oct. 22As for US policy, it must be directed towards pressing for the acceptance of Germany into the European Councils. We must put pressure on the French to let the Germans come in on a dignified basis…
Letter from Dean Acheson to Robert Schuman (30 October 1949) - CVCE WebsiteThese difficult problems involve direct and indirect interests of our own, and in most of them we have grown accustomed in the past four years to making decisions for the Germans …
Secretary of State Acheson Lays Out American Foreign Policy in BerlinThe American, British, and French high commissioners this morning had three hours of secret negotiations with Chancellor Konrad Adenauer; negotiations ordered by the conference of foreign ministers in Paris which eventually will reveal West Germany's new place in the European community of nations.
Foreign Affairs: 20 Nov 1951: House of Commons debatesWe have also the fact that all through these years gradually we have drawn Germany—this greater part of Germany—into the Western orbit. We have drawn this part of Germany into the Schuman Plan, and into every sort and kind of contact—political, economic, literary, cultural of every sort and kind.
After WW2, many wanted to make Germany an agrarian country incapable of being any kind of threat anymore.Any historian can tell you that there was very strong French opposition to German participation in anything, let alone economic unification. — Apollodorus
And it might have been a very small cabal of people that wanted integration (prior to WW2), just like Konrad Adenauer himself, but the essence is that in the end it did work. It did not fail as, well, nearly everything the US has done in the Middle East. Once when those few Europeans turned the heads in Washington and the US was in favor of European integration, then things happened.you will see that the whole project was a top-down operation imposed on Germany, France, and other countries by vested interests, and that in many cases simply by-passed democratic process. — Apollodorus
You seem quite sanguine about the fact that he was a dictator — RolandTyme
In any case, I haven’t seen any evidence that Franco was a “Nazi” or "racist" or anything like that? Though I could be wrong. — Apollodorus
No, you are not wrong. He was not racist neither nazi. — javi2541997
I agree that European integration has been a top down operation, but what you cannot deny is that a) it has been a successful policy in Europe (integration has happened) and that b) Europeans have taken an active role in it. To observe that there were differing opinions was natural. Yes, I don't object your point: also bankers had their agenda, the US did play a major part. But my only disagreement is that you seem to fail to see that their agenda is just one part of the larger picture, it simply doesn't explain everything. For a complex historical phenomenon like the European integration process one narrative with few actors doesn't explain it all. — ssu
Nobody is saying that they don't a role. It's one group that supported integration, but not the only one.If US bankers and industrialists and their European partners played a major role, then that role needs to be acknowledged, not dismissed as "conspiracy theory". — Apollodorus
Well, bankers usually do fund various projects.Bankers and industrialists do not always exert influence directly. Most of the time they do it through lawyers, academics and other intellectuals, and politicians. Of course, Europeans were involved, but key actors like Monnet and Kalergi, for example, were funded by bankers and industrialists. — Apollodorus
At least in several countries, just like in my country, there was a referendum to join the EU. So you are incorrect. Or it's the part of history that you just brush aside in your argumentation.Ordinary, independent Europeans were not involved nor did they ask for a United States of Europe to be created for them. — Apollodorus
Define success.As regards the EU's success, I can see why a country like Finland is pro-EU, but I see no evidence that the EU has been an unmitigated success. — Apollodorus
Many countries have an ageing population. Yet I think it's quite clear that these countries would have similar demographic trends with or without the EU. This isn't a problem because of the EU.1. The EU has an ageing population. — Apollodorus
Yeah. If you make the argument because China and India have risen, this doesn't make sense. It's actually very good thing that Asia has catched up with the EU and the US. Again something that isn't actually happening because of the EU.4.The EU is in long-term economic decline. — Apollodorus
Over one billion people would be so. Hopefully India will too grow so much that it overtakes the 320 million Americans. When that happens the per capita GDP would be still one third from the US, not even half!5. The EU’s largest trading partner used to be America. Now it’s Communist China! — Apollodorus
And if the US continues the way it's doing, I think this going to be a genuine issue. Trumps remarks of the US leaving NATO didn't go unnoticed. This of course is a debate that isn't talked about openly: nobody dares to say how fucked up US foreign policy is now. All this repeat the mantra they have learned, but I think especially now there is going to be a lot of thinking. Afghanistan was also a huge failure for NATO, even if US unilateralism is the decent scapegoat.6. The EU has no defense forces. The only EU country with a proper military is France. Other EU countries are totally dependent on NATO. And NATO only defends them when its leadership has a political or economic interest to do so. — Apollodorus
At least in several countries, just like in my country, there was a referendum to join the EU. So you are incorrect. Or it's the part of history that you just brush aside in your argumentation. — ssu
Not only Finland, but the Eastern members too. And what about Spain, Portugal, Greece? You see, EU enlargement has gone far forward from the start from the EEC.Finland may have preferred to be under EU domination than under Russian domination. But the EU is not about Finland. — Apollodorus
Really? Cold War Bundeswehr had even nukes for a while, actually.If there has been no war, it is because Germany has no armed forces — Apollodorus
I do.There is no connection between one and the other. — Apollodorus
In 1995, a basic treaty on the relations between Hungary and Romania was signed. In the treaty, Hungary renounced all territorial claims to Transylvania, and Romania reiterated its respect for the rights of its minorities. Relations between the two countries improved as Romania and Hungary became EU members in the 2000s.
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