I don’t conform to anyone’s decision unless I agree with it. — NOS4A2

How brave. Good for you.

So you’ve never worked in a company or held a job— or you’ve agreed with all the decisions they make. If you’re somewhere in between, as most people are, then you’ve certainly conformed to other’s decisions. You also do so now, in terms of political decisions.

But hold your delusions all you want.

Worker ownership and control = less autonomy, less freedom for workers. Got it. Straight from the inverted reality you inhabit.

“Your conditions are decided by others.” Yes, the fellow workers— democratically and with your input. As opposed to the same thing in a capitalist company, where the boards of directors make those decisions without any input at all from workers. But because you’re free to leave and get another job, the latter is more freedom? News flash: you can leave a co-op too.

Why are you laughing? That's what happened. — frank

:lol:

Lurched out of stagnation …

By what strange alchemy does this happen? — hypericin

By the workings of NOS’s brain.

But [NOS4A2] hold your delusions all you want.

Worker ownership and control = less autonomy, less freedom for workers. Got it. Straight from the inverted reality you inhabit. — Xtrix

Plutocracy (or idiotocracy) is a helluva drug.

If I don’t like the situation in the workplace I bargain for different conditions, find preferable conditions, or better, make my own. — NOS4A2

No you don't, you're just outright lying.

Harvey explains it. Mark Blyth is good too.

You can’t even fathom such an idea. What a drone.



Confusing having a vote with ownership, control and autonomy is little more than casuistry in my mind. In practice you own and control nothing, and your autonomy extends as far as the mark you make on a piece of paper, the parameters of which are decided without you.

The problem is, unlike yourself and 180proof, I am incapable of envy and don’t feel entitled to owning someone else’s business.

Confusing having a vote with ownership, control and autonomy is little more than casuistry in my mind. — NOS4A2

True -- as is also true when we vote for politicians. But that's a step above having no vote whatsoever. Furthermore, I'm not confusing the two. In worker co-ops, the workers are the "owners" (meaning they are their own board of directors). Plenty of real world examples; very successful (despite US laws making it much harder to form).

Mondragon (of Spain) is usually a standard example. A lot to learn from them. They're worker owned and partly worker managed (meaning they also hire outside mangers).

The problem is, unlike yourself and 180proof, I am incapable of envy and don’t feel entitled to owning someone else’s business. — NOS4A2

No one is talking about envy or owning someone else's business. This is a matter of corporate governance -- how corporations are organized. There's no reason why workers shouldn't have more say in decision making (including where the profits go) -- i.e., on the board of directors -- since they are also major stakeholders in the company (along with bond holders, shareholders, the community, etc). There's also no reason that workers who run the factories can't also own the factories (for example, given the option to buy a plant that the corporation chooses to close).

Besides, corporations aren't legally "owned" by anyone.

Just the fact that your instinct is to consistently argue against anything that would be beneficial for workers, society, or the environment, is why I repeat the sentiment, however harsh, that this old, destructive ideology you embody needs to die off with you and your ilk. Because it's apparent you're never going to wake up -- the Cold War propaganda has too much of a hold on you.

Just the fact that your instinct is to consistently argue against anything that would be beneficial for workers, society, or the environment, is why I repeat the sentiment, however harsh, that this old, destructive ideology you embody needs to die off with you and your ilk. Because it's apparent you're never going to wake up -- the Cold War propaganda has too much of a hold on you. — Xtrix

The instinct you keep noticing is to argue against hollow statements. You'd get the same response here selling time shares in Narnia.

You'd get the same response here selling time shares in Narnia. — Cheshire

Actually the response has been quite good. You and NOS must be misunderstood defenders of truth. :wink: